Hey Andrew,
Nationalists are crying that Eritrea has gone. God knows what they will say when they hear this. "We will fight until the last blood to maintain our country in one piece". I'm an Ethiopian but quite pragmatic in approaching our problems. If only we all can be a bit liberal on our problems. Mother Nature will separate us in the future, we might as well plan on how to build a bridge when it happens then being alerted on how to jump on one another’s throat.

Cheers
ES

This kind of joke has always been there since somalia invaded the Ogaden part of Ethiopia.It was said that the somali plate will secede from Ethiopia in atleast 40 or something million years..so why can't they be a bit patient? The same goes to Eritrea's secession and Ethiopia's landlockedness and as Andrew is joking with, ethiopia will get its coastline back. The new discovery is the speed...it was some big number ...like 40 or million years and not in just 3,040 years. Mr/Ms. ES, it is not about nationalism...we still can maintain our islands just as indonesia. Could Andrew please tell ES how the British went as far as Argentinian shorelines to maintain the Folkland Islands and as far as the Spanish islands to maintain the strait of Gibraltar....But ER speaks of 'nationality' when some greedy tribalists snatch his own shorelines and tells us how pragmatic he is.Pragmatism to give away whatever you have...what kind of joke!

But the sea is our life line and there is no way we should give away our natural sea outlet...no way! We donot have to wait 3,050 years...we lost it just 15 years ago and I think it is far easier to go back. By the way, this geological secession of ethiopian territories, does it have any thing do with the right of self-determination until secession as written in Article 39 of the constitution?
Mintesinot

Mintesinot,

well, as your name suggests, you go and memuwaget with Eritrea regarding "our natural" coastline- after all, mintesaneh. Pragmatists will stick to problems that have a greater potential to being solved such as concrete issues of holding the government to account regarding its policies to achieve the MDGs... Though right now Ethiopia feels like it's stuck in a swamp of ignorance, corruption, despair, hopelessness- but hey, we can still dream of some coastline or other- 15 years lost or 30 million in the future. No difference to those grappling with less abstract daily problems such as food and clean water...

Poverty is never new to Ethiopia. We can live with poverty as always. What is new for us now is the disintegration of Ethiopia and the poisonous tribal hatred now under-going. Our fathers have kept this land from invaders...they could easily have given in...or as you said...be pragmatic and the italians could easily have conquered Ethiopia and by now we would have had white-black problems in Ethiopia as we see in other African states like Zimbabwe or SAfrica ....ofcourse, we would also have been speaking italian as well. I honour Minilik II for not being so 'pragmatic' on national sovereignity/freedom of the nation...and the legacies..we are freeeeee. Just have a look at Palestine or remember about apartheid SAfrica and you would perhaps know what it means to freeeee.It makes sense to be pragmatic before you confront tanks with swords and he didnot choose to do that.

By the way, You can't compromise over sovereignity and the integrity of the nation. If they spent 30 years to take away the shores, it would not take us as much to take it back. History is on our side, pan-ethiopian spirit is still with in the mind and heart of every ethiopian...it is only that we are in the hands of ...well..you know it...!

Our fathers have died and struggled and given us a triangular Ethiopia with its red sea territories with a lot of pride,history and symbolism as an icon of freedom for africa. Even if we are not able to pass wealth to our kids, it is dutybound that we pass the nation to our children atleast as it was passed to us.

FYI, You can't solve poverty just by talking about it. We need a change of leadership in Ethiopia. The famous nobel prize winning economist Amartya Sen once wrote 'There is no famine in a democracy'!

Mintesinot

As planned went back to Addis a month or so ago, guess what my fear been realized finding myself in choatic situation.. killings and mass arrests.. evenif u dont go out and throw stones at the shooting cops, the shit comes to u r house. I experienced shoving and pushing in my parents house by the fed police. Shame on Meles and co. all these years they havent learned abit except most of the barefooted soldiers a decade ago have become suit wearing execs but little thinkin knuckle heads, killing folks for simply protesting for their basic rites.

As far as change well could say road condition is better, more roads and more buildings but more ppl in the street of addis, population soar! different faces, the class thing has changed, u dont find the ppl u kno 10 years back. The population make up of the city has changed, the hospitality of Addis has plummted.. more rude and hot headed folks tookover the city, u get frisked to enter post offices,etc.

Generally, it was an expensive and risky vacation for me.. which reminds me of my motorcycle trip to south america, but still I didnt have to dodge bulls there!! Addis the city I grew up have become a mess!!!

Andrew,

That's cute. Here in the USA, Arizona is waiting to have coastal property, when California sinks in to the ocean. I beleive, Ethiopia will get hers, sooner than Arizona. Besides, Arizonians are free to enjoy the benefits of the ocean without any problem!

i'm already planning my ethiopian seaside holiday and i'm buying a new swim suit too...

"we lost it just 15 years ago and I think it is far easier to go back"

Are you joking me? Eritrea has not been under Ethiopian rule since the late 1880's. The Turks, the Itlians, and the British controlled Eritrea before Selassie attempted to get it back. The Italians COLONIZED Eritrea.

It amazes me the lack of knowledge and history most Ethiopians have about Eritrea, esp amongst the Ethiopian-Americans.
Although we are brothers and sisters in genetic makeups, we have completely different histories.

selam/Kemilahi mimi,

You think i am joking...may be you should go back to college and study Ethiopian History 101. May be you donot know anything about it at all except the ones you want to listen to. So you have never heard anything about Ras Alula fighting in Adulis...and the others! I would not say Eritrea was under ethiopian rule...i would say eritea was part of ethiopia...i think there is a big difference! The red sea has always been a very sensitive part of ethiopia and many wars have been fought for it and thus the Turks, the Italians and others have come over and maintained presence in that part of ethiopia. As you mentioned, " Selassie attempted to get it back ", well said mimi, yes it was part of Ethiopia and so it should be back. He did achieve that with pure diplomacy and diligence and has favoured Eritrea for long to keep people like you feel the love of the motherland and but you guys are ....! By the way, he did it all with a UN mandate if you did not know. And now you want to write another history!

Mintesinot

Actually, Selassie went against UN's order. The order was that Eritrea would be federated under Ethiopia but allowed to self govern themselves. However, Selassie did not allow the Eritreans to self-government. Instead, he started a massacre of the Eritreans. "He wanted the land and not the people." He enforced the amharic language, ordered his governors to control Eritrean cities and killed those who opposed. But I suppose you will say that this was not true and that all Eritreans imagined the deaths of their relatives.
The West remained silent for decades. Why do you think the US held the elections for the Eritreas worldwide?

There was many reasons why Eritrea was colonized and Ethiopia was not. For example, one of the main reasons is the geography of the 2 countries. The Ethiopian highlands gave Ethiopia natural borders and protection. The colonizers were not able to successfully get over the mountains.

I actually went to college at UVA and majored in African Studies so I can get a better perspective on the issues that plagued our country. I am Ethiopian-Eritrean and extremely pround of both countries and their histories. However, I have no disillusioned of its history. I have studied Ethiopian history, but I try to avoid biased and baseless perspectives.

So does "you guys" only apply to my Eritrean side? Why does people automatically revert to ethnic insults when one takes a different political stance?

Mimi,

With due respect, i did not insult you nor anybody. I respect your arguments and perhaps I may learn from you or vice versa. I may have written a bit aggressively but only aggressive to your stand or your 'historical perception'. If that was offensive to you, I apologize as it was inadvertent. For me whether your are eritrean or ethiopian, it is the same...it is just the same people fighting over fake boundaries. The sad thing is the recent war. These two people... they cannot live together and they also cannot live alone from each other.
They want each other and they also donot want each other. One thing should be clear to you though..whatever historical background you may come up with(true/untrue)...just as much as eritrea wants to be independent, ethiopia needs to have a sea outlet! It is just a matter of time and a matter of the leadership in addis ababa. Ethiopia many no more want to have the whole eritrea back but the port of assab will definitely be the bone of contention between the two countries and the red sea will perhaps become even more red as it has historically always been.

Mintesinot

Mintesinot,
No offense taken. Lately, I've been overly sensitive after spending some time in the Ethiopian chatrooms. There is so much hatred and ignorance in most of the discussions. I hate to admit it but I've had my moments of irrational statements/generalization.

I clearly understand the importance of the ports especially for Ethiopia to develop and grow as a country. However, I do not think it is worth more bloodshed. In my opinion, the cost ($1 million a day) and the lives lost will exceed the benefits of going to war for the ports. Plus, I don't believe a war accomplishes anything.

Even if there was a change in leadership in Ethiopia, I don't think that Iyassus will ever allow Ethiopia to have access to the ports. Maybe I'm a skeptical but a change of leadership in Ethiopia will not necessarily change the situation in East Africa. We need more than a new face or change in political leaders, we are in need of a new and different approach. It seems as if we are plagued with the same issues that faced our parents. We can not continue to make the same mistakes. The price is too high.

Eritrea and Ethiopia are truly in need of true leaders that are tolerant and inclusive of all ethnic groups. We've become very self-destructive, at least the Ethiopians in America. Not to mention, the lack of formal education in our histories plays a large role in our self-hatred.

well..good! But to be specific,it is just a matter of how long the leadership in Addis Ababa will stay in power or to be even more specific, it is how long will Meles stay in power or remain alive that Ethiopia will claim the port of Assab and even move for it. For your argument '...I don't think that Iyassus will ever allow Ethiopia to have access to the port.'..well, that doesnot make sense because I can also argue that Iyesus will give ethiopia the power to maintain the red sea and ethiopia will pray for it! I mean divine wishes can be interpreted in the way you like! The price of every war is surely high - the price of Adwa's victory was very high but it was justifiably important even for the rest of africa, the price of maintaining ethiopian red sea territories has been and will also be very high but it is very important for the future of ethiopia.

For your comment on ethiopians in america,may be you should stop and think and analyse the source of all these problems -- Ethiopians should by any means remove Meles Zenawi from the palace in Addis Ababa. Then we have to medicate the nation from all the tribal poisons this guy has injected the last fourteen years.

We may respect the wishes of many people from eritrea who want to be 'independent' but it should not be at the price of Ethiopia's natural sea outlet. For me, 'today's eritrea' is like a teenager who doesnot want to be seen with her mother in public but who wants to go to the mother in the evening and get the milk!

Mintesinot
I don't think that removing Meles would truly solve the political problems of Ethiopia. The problems that we face are the same porblems we've had with previous rulers.We never had a democratic government in Ethiopia.

Who is to take over Ethiopia? How will they be any different from Meles? What Meles is doing right now is nothing new. All of our previous leaders had very tribalistic views and tactics. I do not think that the next dictator would be any different than this regime. The biggest difference will be that another ethnic group would immensely benefit.

I have many conflicting views about the Ethiopians in the diaspora (mainly DC). We only seem concerned about the politics of the Ethiopia. But we do (almost)nothing about the AIDS, faminie, and drought problems that are KILLING us in large numbers. I have attempted to organize and raise awareness around AIDS but the response I recieved was DISGUSTING.

Last year, I held a showing for a documentary on the AIDS epidemic in Ethiopia. It was a free showing. It was not that the turnout that was low, it was the actions of others in our community thta turned me off. Some Ethiopian Resturants refused to advertise for an AIDS event.Dukem, in particular, was extremely rude about it. She would not even accept the flyer..gave me some BS about the manager has to approve & to come back..but yet they have a bunch of flyers for parties and etc..or how the ESAI agreed to co-sponsor with us but also co-sponsored/promoted another event at the same time. I guess I have been slightly turned off by Ethies in DC. I realized that I need to exert my energy in other ways. Its sad when I can get more Americans than Ethio-Americans to support these types of events.

Another issue I have here id DC is that most habeshas feel that their view/plight is the ONLY correct plight. If you do not agree 100% then automatically you are the enemy. How can there be only one acceptable perspective. There are so many issues that play a role in the situation today. If we do not have a tolerant view on all ethnic groups, we will always be at each others' throats.

Where do the Oromos fit in the battle for power btwn the Tigrays and Amharas? What are the chances of ever having an Oromo leader? How will the next ruler acknowledge them? What happens if they succeed in self determination?
Or do we go to war over that too? At what point do we stop killing one another and start listening and respecting each other?

I know I'm all over the place but I have so many questions and love to hear different opinions. It helps me get a well-rounded perspective.

selam mimi,

I completely disagree with your viewpoint on Meles zenawi. In fact, that is an unfair viewpoint, so to speak! You donot have to necessarily ethnicise politics in Ethiopia..this is a question of giving power to the people and we both clearly know who the people voted for and will vote for. Give power to the people, full stop, donot ethnicise politics or politicise ethnicity! Political discussion should not necessarily reflect ethnicity--it should actually be guided by ideology and deliberation. I donot want a person to represent me in blood in parliament-what I want is a person who represents my viewpoint whatsoever his blood or color---Do you get my point? The question of blood representatives in Ethiopian parliament is already fulfilled--it is so easy--you just bring one person from that tribe and call him a president or a vice primier! That doesnot solve the problem. If you really want to solve the problem, clean ethnic politics from the ethiopian political landscape. People should start to think with their mind and not with their blood.

You know what? -- if you really care for Ethiopia, you would never support ethnic politics. Let me tell you how dangerous Meles is even from the ever brutal Mengistu. The red terror did not discriminate between races/blood, but the recent Agazzi terror was actually done in the way deliberately calculated to provoke tribal violence and that is how the leaders preached!When Mengistu left, nothing happened but when Meles leaves(sure he will leave), can you imagine the legacies...?

For your good work on HIV/AIDS, there are people in London who work like this and i think they are doing well. May be you can contact them and work with them - if it is not too far for you!

http://www.easyuk.info/

Mintesinot,
I agree with you on some points - esp about giving it to the people. I'm sure I could be corrected in some of these points...

My point is that we never had a democratic government. The process of going from a dictator rule to a democractic government is a difficult and uphll battle. I guess I have no faith that the next government would be any better. Not to mention, I do not believe that their is such a thing as a fair election. In a 3rd world country, with 77 million people- how does one accomplish that? What about the millions that do not have the opportunity to vote? I think that the fact thay parliment changed its rules was a bigger issue.

We have a history of the minority ruling the majority. I think we have a history of ethnicizing rulers. Why hasn't the Oromos never been in power? Not to mention, the second class status they've always had in Ethiopia.

Look at some of our insults, their ethnic based.
We as a people have always had a superiority complex. Look at our (some) views that we are better than other africans/americans...
I know that I might be overgenarlizing but I've definitely seen/heard enough of this.

I will ALWAYS work for my people. I will never allow politics to cloud my motivation to work around these issues. I know that God has blessed me with many opportunites that I have a duty to give back. I guess I always think of the possiblities of me being one of the many dying everyday from stravation, AIDS, or faminie. These must be one of the worst ways to die. They are apart of me and I am them.

I live in DC, so London is a little to far. I will look into it though. I need some ideas on fundraising. Plus, I have been looking into other organizations that work around AIDS. I also know a couple of amazing Ethiopians working in these areas. I had wanted to bring an org that brought all Ethiopians and Eritreans (in America) together to address our issues jointly - but that in itself would be a lot of work.

sorry but gotta run

selam mimi,

For your comment on the difference between Ethiopia and Eritrea, may be i should give you an extract on their similarity or one-ness. I actually took it from Dagmawi. (http://www.geocities.com/~dagmawi/Zebenya/Zebenya.html)

" ... Eritrea owes the location of its capital, Asmara to him. His entire life was taken up by fighting foreign invaders, Egyptians at Gundet and Gura, Italians at Dogali and Adowa, Sudanese Dervishes at Kufit and Metemma. Most of these places were in (today's) Eritrea. Beni-Amer horsemen fought side-by-side with Ras Alula at Kufit, and people of the Kebessa fought at his side at Gura and Gundet. The invaders knew precisely what country they were invading - Ethiopia. Michela and some Eritrean historians that lack integrity may make bland assertions otherwise, but the history is too well-documented to falsify now. ..."

I told you some people are writing their own histories. It is a pity!

Why do you think an oromo/amhara/tigre should take power because he is oromo/amhara/tigre/gurage? That doesnot make sense in the 21 century! We had problems in the past and but in the past, there was also apartheid, in the past there was the slave trade, in the past there was also Hitler. Now we are in a different world and different mentality.

It is not difficult to give power to the people! Why do you want to give legitimacy to a tribally brutal regime? you know why? you yourself are tribally narrow-minded! Despite what this guy has done, you still want to give meles a tribal legitimacy to stay in power. We have given him 15 years and he has destroyed the nation. He has used divide and rule to stay in power and has disrespected the nation's history and sovereignity. Only fascist Italy has done this to ethiopia! And now he has imprisoned the leaders of the people and tortured thousands of citizens and activists and even killed mothers and stabbed sisters! What kind of Jesus do you believe in?

What kind of ethiopia do you have in your mind? People were not divided like this during the derg regime! Churches were not divided like this during the Derg regime! University's were not divided like this during the derg regime! The nation itself was not divided like this in its it its recent history!
You are either a supporter of the regime because of ethnicity and also because you want to secure eritrea or you have just a very myopic political view! Tomorrow is another day sister - wake up!

I guess there's no point in even attempting to hold a civilized conversation. I should've know better - I've seen your other postings.
Thanks for the insults, they were enlightening and brilliant.

The best one was - "What kind of jesus do you believe in" Are you really trying to insult my religion? Now that's real godly- what religion do you belong to? what does religion have to do with it? what if I believed in Allah? That still does not make me any less of an Ethiopian.

I will always be Ethiopian whether or not you like it. You can never take that away.

Have a good life.

you can say whatever you want and whatever makes you happy. I am very impervious to any offenses. I would not cry because you said this or that. But I told you the reality. I told the spade a spade.In stead of addressing the fundamental issues at stake, you talk about ethnicity.I use my mind to think, and not my blood. if you have noticed, i donot care about ethnicity-i am ethiopian and that is what I am and will always be. But if you speak of offenses and insults, may be you didnot know how insultive and brutally offensive you were when you say Meles is still the right man to rule ethiopia now and also for the future while the blood split in the streets of addis ababa is still fresh! How offensive you were to the thousands now in jail being tortured, to the mothers weeping for their killed children, to the kids whose fathers were imprisoned and mothers shot, to the sisters stabbed by soldiers for crying for thier brothers,---i didnot complain when you say that he is the right man-but I told you that you are wrong and also perhaps why you are wrong! That offense led me to question your faith because you said you are christian-I am a good christian by the way- but the jesus i know is the lord of truth-the jesus I know is the Lord of goodness-sympathy-love, the jesus I know is the lord of mercy---so given your support for such a brutal dictator and also when you speak of christianity, then i questioned your integrity. This is not the christian ethics that the jesus I know taught me, -- not at all!

For your ethiopian-ness, ethiopia is a mother. I cannot take that away from you , never can and never want to do that! But you can abuse it - it is your will- your free will. Ethiopia has born even people like Meles and still mothers him! But you should also know that ethiopia also has mother-loving sons and daughters!

For judging me as whatever you like because I posted some of my view points elsewhere, it was better if you had said this is wrong or this is right instead of implying you are an 'evil guy'. One thing should be clear to you though, I didnot say you are an evil person when you legitimise tribal killings in addis ababa!

you are not ready for civilised thoughts as you still think in primitive social formation - that some body should rule because he has this or that blood - but you complain for lack of 'civilised conversation'! Yihunilish!