May 20, 2005
Electric trains and expat Ethiopians
I had an "exclusive" interview with Hailu Shawel, chairman of the opposition Coalition for Unity and Democracy (CUD) yesterday. The CUD has claimed total victory in Addis Ababa - both in the city administration and its 23 seats in the House of People's Representatives. It also says that it is heading for overall victory in the national elections - with a little help from its coalition partners like the EUDF.
Engineer Hailu talked about his master plan for Addis and the country as a whole. You can see the full interview below the fold.
But, in a nutshell, his top priorities for Addis are:
- Infrastructure development - including a city train network and a revamped water supply - "I think this could start immediately. The design is there."
- Training schemes for unemployed young people - "Problem number one is the young people who have no work."
- Accommodation and employment schemes for the city's destitute - "Instead of taking them away we provide them with decent accommodation where we can have handiwork and so on introduced on a large scale."
- A reformed city administration - "It is not only that it is overstaffed...We have to put key people in these leadership positions."
His top priorities for Ethiopia are:
- Land reform - "The government should take its hands off land"
- Liberalisation of the banking sector - "The banking has to be freed up, first of all. Second, we also have to allow foreign banks to come here."
- A new tax system - "The system at the moment is scaring every local investor into the ground."
- And a new office to attract foreign investors - "[We need to support] them from the beginning so they can function here."
And where will he get all the talented, motivated people to lead all these new initiatives? Largely from diaspora Ethiopians who, Engineer Hailu says, are now keen to come home.
"We will get really competent people in. They don't have to be here. There are many Ethiopians who are in the World Bank, the UN system, in other African countries – I've worked abroad, I know them. Whatever you pay them they will come. And I think these people need to be put to work. They are all lining up, literally, to come. Those with money and even those without money but with brains and capabilities."
Interview with Hailu Shawel, chairman of the Coalition for Unity and Democracy (CUD)
Q: Your one definite claim to date is that you have won Addis Ababa. What is your take on the city and its main problems?
The first problem of Addis is unemployment – serious unemployment, especially of young school leavers, because of very, very retarded development...Number two, the same people are not allowed to use their initiative. There are some very intelligent young people but there is no support system to get them to work. There a serious misuse of the micro finance system which is externally assisted. But inside the administration there is serious partiality, so that independent young people can not access that network. It has been a ruling party fund to get the youth to them. Those who become party members get these special privileges. But the large majority who want to do some work are never given this facility. We believe a change in this system could start the young people on the right road.
Number two even if they want to do something themselves, exercise their initiative, there is no guidance given. Even the NGOs are not allowed to help these people. What we believe is NGOs can contribute very significantly to starting these people on the right road until we can get private investment to move again. So this is a gap which can be easily filled by NGOs. Eventually though we have to have a very efficient administrative system to encourage the investors to move into the city. So far they have been moving out of the city because of soaring land value which is tantamount to purposeful discouragement. Also, the banks are very conservative. They are not developing country banks. In a depression like this they make it look as if there is a problem of inflation so they completely suppress the financial investment in this town and in the country as a whole. We believe we have to free up the system. We have to come up with taxation systems that will allow investors to be more aggressively participating in the development of the country. And the banks should be a part of this – a very important part. And the financial system should enable the banks to be more flexible. The private banks are so highly controlled that there is so much money sitting around. And the government bank, which is the Commercial Bank of Ethiopia, doesn't give loans because of administrative problems...So we need to free that system immediately. How we can do it is only if we win the federal seats. Otherwise we will be constrained in our efforts to move forward. But Addis by itself, if there is control by the Federal government as there is now. I don't think there is freedom to move. The only thing we can do is to encourage the private sector and the NGOs to help out. Otherwise we can not free up the economic system at the moment.
So I see this, immediately, we will continue for short term employment – we will expand the construction sector. But that is a short term respite as you know. For the longer term investors should be attracted into the city by a good administration, good support, good accessibility to land and NGO help.
Q: How would you describe the city administration at the moment. How could you make it better?
The Addis Ababa administration does not deal in essence with the economy. It just deals with building roads and infrastructure and so on. But what do you build roads for? And moreover there is partiality for giving permits for anything in this country. We want clear, transparent systems...If you are a foreign investor, for the first few days you get everything quickly. But when it comes to the crunch, when you are really serious to do something, the whole thing stops. You get papers but never results.
Q: I was interested in your comment about NGOs. Do you think you will have a different approach to NGOs than the current administration?
There will be a very serious difference. We will give them problem areas to focus on. But they can take a choice over what they consider they can do within their capacity. And we will allow them to work freely – we won't say ‘Don't do this', ‘Don't do that.' – that stops immediately, immediately. If they want to involve themselves in helping the elderly – that is their choice. If they want to help the youth, we will accommodate it – whatever they want. Now at the moment it is all ‘You're not supposed to do this', ‘You're supposed to do that', ‘Go to the rural areas', ‘Don't come to the city'. But the city is becoming such a problem...They don't seem to see the totality of the problem. We see there are many NGOs who can help out in a serious way. We will even allow them to go into the micro-finance system, which the government refuses to do at the moment. Because it wants to control everything. We believe they should do it, not a government institution.
Q: If you win Addis Ababa without winning the Federal Government, what will be your top three priorities?
We believe that an economic situation is brought about by the private sector not by the government. What we will do is enable these private sector people to come in and start their job. The only thing a city government can do is to try to participate in short-term training of the youth – in technical issues. For example, if an investor wants a repairman or an electrician, there will be a specific training centre for this on a short term basis for a fast return to work. NGOs can help to establish these training centres and bring experts to train them. Because we do not have experts at the moment. The capability has gone down. I remember when I was a young engineer even the builders were so expert and the lines were just right. Now you get one line going that way, another the other way. Because the quality has gone down so dramatically. So that sort of thing needs re-training, complete re-training. So this is an area where we will try to ask everyone to participate in training the youth. And I think that is number one. Because problem number one is the young people who have no work.
Problem number two is the poor people who have no place to go. They are all in the same batch. Elderly people sleeping on the street. Poor people with nothing to eat. Instead of taking them away we provide them with decent accommodation where we can have handiwork and so on introduced on a large scale. Not these show pieces that we spread around in the country. Real, serious productivity – these are items for tourism, Ethiopian artefacts. A lot can be done by women in this area.
So Addis by itself: administrative system improvement; water supply - immediate enhancement of the capacity; the infrastructure which takes a long time to put in. We have to review all the plans. We believe, as I said, if you start getting the people to work, then foreign investors can come in because they see a healthy environment. They see that the rowdy youth are not there. And so on.
Q: Jut to look at you Addis Ababa plans in detail. You intend to set up a series of training programs for young people, started by the city administration and involving NGOs. Is that right?
The plan will be by the City administration. But the doing – we believe the NGOs and the private sector are best placed to contribute to this.
Q: How will it all be funded?
There will be some borrowing and institutions like the World Bank will like these kinds of projects. They will be involved. But most of it, I am sure, can be funded through small NGO grants. Because these are small capacity building establishments which are not profit making. It is just getting people out of the doldrums to start having a trust in themselves. So they can do something.
Q: How about your plans for destitute people? How will that be funded? And the accommodation – will there be new blocks of flats in the city or …
I think the city government has to do that. I think this should be a place where they can work, in the suburbs where you can set up in open areas. There are already some like that but there are too few. Some NGOs have institutions making carpets, making Ethiopian shamas, handicraft, carving. But there is a quality problem. So we have to bring in experts to really improve the quality so that tourists can buy them – or you can even export them.
Q: And the improved administration?
The administration will be down to ourselves. We really have to streamline that. That's our first job. Otherwise everything will just be talk. It is not only that it is overstaffed, there is a quality problem. A very serious quality shortage. We have to put key people in these leadership positions so that the response could be much quicker.
Q: How about the water supply and the infrastructure? How would that be funded?
We can't do it by ourselves, with our own funds. There are existing plans. I know about them. I participated in some of these water supply plans. It is already ready. It has been ready for quite some time. And number two, a transport infrastructure plan has also been ready a long time ago. Like electric trains and so on in this city. These plans have already been drawn out. I am sure the World Bank was interested at one time in funding these major rail links within the city. So that it reduces taxi fumes and standing and waiting in line. You can't serve all these people with buses. I think this could start immediately. The design is there.
Q: Why has it not happened up to now?
It was done about 18 years ago. At that time the Derg was in power and nobody would give a loan to the Derg obviously. So it stopped. When this government came – if it had really cared about this city it would have done it and the World Bank would have jumped at the chance of financing this infrastructure.
Q: So, if you win the country as well as Addis, what will you top three priorities be then? You mentioned reforming the banking system earlier. Is that a key priority?
Banking is a system which moves an investment or a retrenchment. The banking has to be freed up, first of all. Second, we also have to allow foreign banks to come here. And then, I am sure, on the back of these banks will come investors. Because they will trust. They will work with their own bank and things will be easier. If you do that, you also make the local banks more competitive and more cohesive. Most probably the local private banks, which are mini-banks in a way, they will come together and form bigger banks. Which means there will also be competition for the foreign banks and the commercial banks. It will all become more active. So that is number one, I believe. Without that, you can talk about development, you can talk about anything, but you won't go anywhere.
Number two, I do believe there needs to be a special office for investors who come here, supporting them from the beginning so they can function here. We need a special office – not what they have at the moment. There is an investment office but when you go there it is “Oh, where is the boss”. I would even arrange to collect people at the airport – it would not be highly costly. Then we could talk to these investors, let them talk freely to the local investors. They don't want to talk to government. They want to talk to their own kind – the investors here. So, if we free up the local investors, the foreign investors will come. It will be a cohesive action which will move things forward.
We also have, at the moment, a real momentum from the people. When there is a change people are really raring to go. And people will work much harder if they have their own elected government. We believe we have to use that momentum to really get things going. And we can do it. We will get really competent people in. They don't have to be here. There are many Ethiopians who are in the World Bank, the UN system, in other African countries – I've worked abroad, I know them. Whatever you pay them they will come. And I think these people need to be put to work. They are all lining up, literally, to come. Those with money and even those without money but with brains and capabilities.
Q: We have looked at banking and attracting investors. What else would be at the top of your list of priorities?
I believe this taxation system needs to be streamlined really. The system at the moment is scaring every local investor into the ground. People have to pay taxes, obviously, there is no problem about that. But, what is the basis of your taxation? There has to be a serious basis. You go into a little shop and they say ‘You pay this, unless you pay a little baksheeh and then you pay only this'. That has to stop. Immediately, it has to stop. There will be no group here who are favoured. At the moment, people are going up to investors and saying – ‘If you work with me you will get that and if you don't you will get this.' There are these things that are not at all tangible…but they are very serious. When an investor comes these days, everyone tries to grab something. And what happens then is that he moves out – he doesn't come back because the future doesn't look right. But here, if you have a clean government – and we can have a clean government with a policy of ‘first mistake and you are out'. If you are willing to be tough, I think you can have a clean government.
Q: From the perspective of Western Europe and America, this year is the 20th anniversary of Live Aid and the 1984/5 famine. What would you do about the whole development and land rights issue?
It depends on how much our majority will be. If we get two thirds, together with our coalition partners, the first issue to tackle is the land issue. The government should take its hands off land – except reforestation and rehabilitation areas. We support either communal ownership or individual ownership. And we consider land as capital. It is completely not in line with the socialist approach of the present government. The farmers will jump at the chance. And the investors can come in like everybody else and say this is my land. So land is a very serious matter. A very, very serious matter. And the people want it. That is why, when the EPRDF claims the rural areas, it is lying, it is cheating. Because our first discussions with people were in the rural areas. And what we told them was – land to the tiller. That's yours. You can sell it. You can keep it. You can transfer it. You can do anything with it. And that is the way we want it to be. Feeing up the economy starts with that.
Posted by aheavens at May 20, 2005 7:32 AM
Comments
Dear Andrew.
I have followed your link to BBC and found interesting election coverage. Thanks!
About Engineer Hailu master plan, First and foremost I like Addis to be a vibrant and modern city of all time but the bottom line is wishful thinking won’t get us anywhere. Wishing a city train network and a revamped water supply is good but having or procuring the finance to build that is another thing which CUD or the incumbent Gov. could not accomplish in a forcible near future unless we increase our productivity and focus on increasing our export competitiveness and export revenue.
Besides this city train is not our most pressing needs when we evaluate our problem in terms of urgency. We have about 500,000 young and jobless people (mind you this figure only represent Addis Ababa). We have housing problem we have to solve in a very near future, We have health related problems such as HIV aids and alike we should take care of, we have so many, many, many, many and many uncountable problem that needs to be solved before building a city train.
If CUD wants to be a real development catalyst of the country, it has to focus resource and knowledge of the country on using the very important resource of the country labor and land to increase and increase export!! That is the only way out of poverty. That is the only way we can exercise our freedom in the international arena and that is when we build better homes for our people. Mind you there is no freedom supporting 40% of the country budget with donors fund.
If that is the case EPRDF has a clear and concise polices in terms of how to achieve this growth realistically even though it is painful and harsher.
Finally lets avoid our wishful thinking if we want a better and prosperous country, as this will not get us anywhere any far!
Posted by: zeimpexethiopia at May 20, 2005 9:46 AM
Hi, Andrew
I would like to ask Engineer Hailu a couple of questions about his plan on curving problems of unemployment, housing and skill development particularly in Addis Ababa. As we all knows Addis is already one of over populated cities in Africa, from rural migration. Did he consider that his plan can attract many families to Addis from rural area unless expanded to their region? If so how his party planning to curve this problem or is he going to tell them that they can't benefit from these plan because they are not from Addis?
Regarding his land for sale policy didn’t he know that 70% of Zimbabwe’s fertile land was controlled by 3% of white minorities? So what is his guarantee that this form of colonization doesn't happen to Ethiopian farmers?
Barek
Posted by: barek at May 20, 2005 3:36 PM
Common Sense Revolution:
We can argue and debate until the end of time to prove that we are right and someone else is wrong. We all get our education (economics, business, science, etc) from the west and try to philosphize simply to prove our greatness and disprove somebody else. Stop this bullshit. Our country, being one of the poorest in the world needs everything that could get her out of the quagmire of economic poverty, political instability and social suppression. We should only know how to priorotize the programs and projects on the list. I am fade up of those intellectual demagugues and discourse. Let's get back to work. A gram of work is heavier than a kilo of words. In short, we are unfortunate people who are suffering mainly because of man made problems (maladministration, mismanagement, dictatorship, etc) otherwise I belive we are rich in natural and human resources including the thousands of intelectuals we have in the diaspora. Let's stop this nonsense and support each other to build the country. In the meantime I don't deny the fact that we got to have leaders with passion, committment and determination to transform our society. Ethiopia is for all of us. Narrow natinalists, Immature politicians and shrewd citizens will eventually phase away. It's a matter of time. History never lies, historians do. We have suffered so much for so long and enough is enough. Defend your people and show love to your country. There comes a day where we can walk with our chin up instead of the head down. My fellow Ethiopians, remember that what ever happened to our country is our history. We ourselves destroyed Ethiopia, no French or German army invaded us. We are responsible for our success and failure. Let's build the future together. Although Ethiopia had produced many bad apples, Let's place those apples on a justice scale instead of promoting revenge and retaliation. We have to learn from Nelson Mandela. If we don't stop destruction now, then when? We are great people. Our country is a musium of different people, culture, music, language, religion, art, etc. We never had the chance to realize that how lucky and fortunate we were to be created on such a land of magnificient proportions of every kind, be it climate, lifestyle, history, you name it. The time has finally come. Our Ethiopia will rise again if not tomorrow, after tomorrow. There comes the end of sorrow!
Thank you and keep up the good work
Sahlu Bekele
Toronto, Canada
Posted by: Sahlu Bekele at May 20, 2005 5:13 PM
Dear Honorable Haiou Shawel,Dr,Berhanu Nega,Professor Mesfin W/Mariam ,Mr.Ledetu Ayalew and the entire Kinijit party members,
We the diaspora ethiopians have been excited to learn the the landslide victory of your party.Thank you for sacrificing yur time and puting your lives at such great risk to confront the tribal cleak of woyane/ehadig so that Ethiopia could be free.We are bhind you in our prayers and any other capacity we might help.Thank you again.
Posted by: Belete Worku at May 20, 2005 6:39 PM
Dear Mr. Shawel and all other leaders of the opposition:
First of all, I would like to congradulate you for your landslide victory and the hard work in putting together this unprecedented unity of force to challange a seating government power.
As you are aware of our country's situation, the main reason for our suffering and poverty is our own leaders' mismanagement and greed to stay in power for ever among other factors. I have read your interview and followed up some of the debates and they sound like you are real and hopefully, you are. But, What guaranty will I/we have you and your associates will not try to enrich your self and would not try to stay in power by force and do the very same thing the past dictators and authoritarian leaders had done? Hopefully, you will have the time to respond to such an important question that most Ethiopians would like to get an answer for.
Posted by: Samuel at May 20, 2005 7:50 PM
First,I would like to thank you everyone. as an ethiopian I would like to say one thing :1)lets change the flag before we change Addis Our flag Green, Yellow, RED NO star or any we should all recpect that 2)Lets clean ethinc problem like there is no Amahra Zone, Orom Zone, Tigray Zone,somlia Zone etc.... everyone the same. the reason i said the tigray goverment used that to under control the ethiopian people by divided. 3)we should talk about education, Health, Employment, and how we are rebulding the new Ethiopia without discriminations. Finally
Congratulations To All
Posted by: Ashagre at May 20, 2005 7:58 PM
Dear Ato Hailu Shauel and kinigit leadership members, I would like to congratulate you on the
progress you have made so far. It is obvious that our country is in deep problem on every aspect. To get out of the exisisting problem what
we need is proper leadership and planned guidance, based on interaction and communication with concerned part of the society.
As to my belief the core action to be taken towards economic developement and progress lies on land and every other property ownership. These, I believe, shall reduce and in the near future eliminate the poverty and backwardness of our society and stops inflow of people from rulal
areas to cities.
Thanks, God bless you all.
Posted by: Dejene Abebe at May 20, 2005 8:02 PM
Oh my...I am less than impressed by his responses. He is proposing killing ethiopian financial institutions to get foreign investors in the country. Mark my words, not a single home grown financial institution will survive. Where are you going to save, at Citi or Awash? No wonder the Americans are in full support of these people, they have been pushing for opening up banking since the late 90s. And for what? For measly manufacturing jobs that aren't going to pay a didly dime (no sane investor will invest where labor costs are going to be higher than that of China or east Asia, and the infrastructure is much worse)...Capacity building is what we need to focus on. Countries like China are opening up now because they now have invested a lot in building their infrastructure, developing their human capital. It is quiet premature to do that now in Ethiopia.
Trains for addis? Please!is this guy kidding? These things are capital intensive going into hundreds of millions of dollars even for distances of about 10 miles, and one line won't solve a problem, a network of lines solves problems. I don't think these ideas are thought out. B/C studies in the west are very low for such investments, in Ethiopia it will be a disaster (unless one is willing to subsidize one train line at a cost of hundreds of busses). What they should probably think of is trains for goods transportation between economic centers (which are arguable cost efficient as compared to truck transport), not for public transport. Buy clean fuel burning busses if fumes are the problem.
I have been very excited by how things were going in this election, but now this has given me pause. Many of his proposals seem to be quiet extreme. And NGOs, that is his plan for the country? many of these, that operate at huge admin costs, are more part of the problem than the solution. I find this unsettling.
Thanks Andrew for shareing.
Posted by: Asibut Negerun at May 20, 2005 8:28 PM
It is indeed very gratifying to see a glimmer of democracy twinkling in the horizons of the Ethiopian culture.It is indeed befitting for this great country known for its old civilization,of being the birth place humanoid, of being the only un-colonized independent nation in Africa, to proudly held an election and throw out an unpopular and a trojan horse of a government which belittled our nation and our values. The country's unity has been torn apart ethnically just to enable the present outlaw regime to rule by means of "divide and rule". The political priority that the present government has set up works indefatigably to isolate, fragment, and neutralize based on ethnicity.They did everything possible to create perpetual enmity and rivalry between the different nationalities so that no one may realize its potential to live and work together for the one general good of the country.Parcelling Ethiopia into "bantustans"- a tactic that Meles and his henchmen used to "govern" us-has enabled him to "sell" Eritrea to his age old friend and relative.The price we paid was the separation of Eritrea from Ethiopia,and the enmity of the Oromos towards the Amharas,the Amharas towards the Tigres and so forth.This was not our history- ours was a history of tolerence and accomodation.We have paid dearly and it is time that we reverse the devilish process. Elections were conducted, results are being awaited and if they are free and fair, the ETHIOPIAN PEOPLE WILL WIN. A government of the people ,by the people and for the prople will be in place and then we will take Ethiopia back.Congratulations to all who made it all possible
God speed and may the Almighty bless Ethiopia
Posted by: Yehwalashet Girma at May 20, 2005 8:51 PM
I would like to congratulate Eng Hailu in particular and the entire opposition for the outstanding gains they have achieved despite all odds.it is my firm belief that ethiopia is at a cross road in to joining the freedom of democratic rule with the sacrifices of many. hoping for a smooth transition of power and urging the ruling and opposition to work and write history by empowering the people of ethiopia i would like to drop some comments on what the new adminstration should consider.
i am quite satisfied with the programms put forwarded by the oppositon and would like to add few points.
intoday's world of globalization and stiff competition developing coutries are finding it very difficult to attract foreign investment. the senario gets even harder considering 'ethiopia's' image world wide. our investment codes and incentives should consider (if possible) the fundamental background that ethiopia is the last place any foreign investment would choose to do business. we should give every possible incentives and proper and transparent legal frame work that is easily understandable by the 'fast paced' but very skeptical investor mentality of many 'westners'.I liked Eng Hailu's comment that stated even to the extent of 'picking them up from the airport'........it seems very insignificance but it tells a lot about the commitment of the adminstration.
Another very important but always never mentioned fact is the aspiration of creating a technology based economy.we have massive manpower that can easily transform the country into technology based economy.we have thousands of young professionals who are very qualifed to do business in such areas as software development,information technology,engineering technology,small to medium scale engineering design firms, technical contractors for building, electrical and air conditioning systems. The 'Diaspora' would play a very significant contribution if given such an opportunity.......it is a well known fact that we have very qualified engineering professors and professionals in hundreds if not thousands in top universities and companies in the west.the significance of considering the 'diaspora' can easily seen if one can understand the transformation of such developing countries as 'india' and 'china'.
These group of investments are known to demand very qualified workforce. in our case we lack the support system or the awareness to do such businessess. the investement code should give an extended incentives to such businesses and businese proposals. it should go as far as allocating technology districts whereby such businessess would enjoy ready made infrastructure such as telephone,office and legal frame work to accomplish their business.we should also take bold measures to introduce result oriented curriculum in our engineering and other technical schools. we should abandom an outdated engineering curriculum that is wasting our resource and time. with the help of the vast knowledge base easily accessible to our students, our schools should start tunning their curriculum and start graduating engineers not 'equation solvers' who seem to look weak on the face of real world tasks. our engineers should be ready to be design engineers not consumer engineers any more. we need them to design our bridges and rail way systems not approve a design that is done by very expensive foreign firm as it is a customary nowadays.we need risk taker government body that empowers its citizens by awarding government contrats to home based companies.one can see how heavily our defense technology is dependent on foreign experts with very high tax payers money.our schools should allocate a considerable time teaching business courses so that our engineers would learn how to sell their skills and not just job seekers on the streets.Our banks should abandon their long held 'stupid' lending procedures and start a 'soft' loan arrangement for such business proposals. the government on the other hand should introuce a strict copy right law that awards inventors of their brain work.we shoud make it easy for a technical school graduate to set up his/her own electrical contractor or civil contractor(any other mid level occupation) company right after graduation by devicing transparent certification procedures and incentives.getting these small scale busineses to business can easily be done by making into law the need for a certified contractor for constructing houses,industrial erection or any other such undertaking. this will create competition and also creativity.it is also my belief that this will expand our tax base and involves many individuals in to the transaction. for all of these to work the bottle neck is a very transparent legal system in place......if some one robbed my brain work i should know beyound reasonable dobout that i would get justice.......i therefore would like to stress the importance of introducing 'knowlege economy' along with many other opportunities to solve our 'many fold' problems here and there.
Posted by: alula at May 20, 2005 8:57 PM
congraglation Ethiopia! our father mother's had spoken lawdly,no to etnicty and divden rule of the epdrf gov Yes for one ethiopia one flag as it seem yestrday our fathers mothers....showd in Gura,adwa,maichwe,....fought the enmy it is the sprite of ethiopia that leads us ....agin congra eibrite,kengite and the ethiopian peple!!!!!!!!
Posted by: solomon mechal at May 20, 2005 9:05 PM
let's applaud kinijit (CUD) and the leadership for the victory.
Let's move forward with developing OUR beloved Ethiopia in every direction with ALL the people participating.
Let's forget ethinic division, regionalism etc...
Let them be past as TPLF itself.
We have great potential, many educated and smart people in and out of Ethiopia WHO can join efforts in this NEW arena!!!!
I hear people say Meles Zenawi is a smart, intelligen etc... guy..... so be it.
But WHAT would that benefit my country if he/his party and the entire leadership has bad agenda for the country??? Why should he stay in Ethiopian office If he has NO patriotic feeling, doesn't stand for the rights and intersts and soverneignty of the COUNTRY.
Peace, freedom and proseperity to OUR people.
Fitsum.
Posted by: Fitsum Kebede at May 20, 2005 9:41 PM
I am troubled by Hailu's seemingly globalist approach, as I do not want Ethiopia to become another Argentina. He seems to place a lot of weight on attracting foreign investors and developing a globalised workforce suited to offer capable "human resources" whose cheap labor could attract multi-national corporate investors. I'd prefer his economic platform to be based on encouraging and promoting native industrial development.
Posted by: Khalid at May 20, 2005 9:47 PM
I think shwel and all of the cud are living in the lala land. Their policy about land which would make Ethiopia another Zimbabwe are rediculous. And Their plan to get asseb is also not realistic. I was exited about Asseb but it is far from true when i read about how they plant to get it. By The way I came to a conclusin that Meles is The Smartest Ethiopian alive!
Posted by: yoni at May 21, 2005 12:57 AM
Very,very disturbing.
I would caution Mr. Shawl on his economic policy,"Open up...to allow foreign banks in"?
Who is this going to benefit? Who is going to use this capital? How much money do Ethiopias poor need to invest in their farms? Do they really need money from Banc of America or Deuchue Bank to buy fertalizer?
"Government-free land" Again.. If poor farmers are selling their land and poor farmers cannot buy more land, where is this land going to go?
The answer is to spectators.
But the more important question is who are these spectators? Do you know any Ethiopians that have enough money to buy up lots of land? I don't.
This means that most spectators will be foreign with massive amounts of capital. If Mr. Shawel gets his way I bet you by 2025 that 10 investors from America and Europe will probably own about 75% of land in Ethiopia.
If 10 foreign investors from Europe and America own 75% of Ethiopian, can the Ethiopian government be free from their influence? No.
If land is privitized, Ethiopia will lose her sovereignty through the back door.
Be cautious friends, as we are entering unfimilar territory.
Posted by: Morrison at May 21, 2005 2:25 AM
Gude semane.....kedetu wede matu
Posted by: visitor at May 21, 2005 4:28 AM
Ok. NOW I am worried that the opposition is going to win. While I was silently rooting for them (I do not have the right to vote in Ethiopia, thus decided to keep it to myself), I am now worried that they would win. I had higher expectations from such leader, than the responses I read... Come on, his responses like "There are existing plans. I know about them." scare me to death, especially when he is refering to plans that were on the drawing board 18 years ago. EIGHTEEN YEARS AGO! So much has happened in 18 years, millions are still at risk in terms of food shortage and he is talking electric cars?!?!?! His responses are none other than the usual rantings that one hears, those that make it sound like it's all going to be rosy the minute he walks in.
As for those who will come from the diaspora to run the city, I will see it when I believe it. They will all hide once they are called upon.
Posted by: nowiamworried at May 21, 2005 5:29 AM
I don't understand why so many of us negated the reformist economic proposal of Mr Shawel. Our country has never known that kind of reform, which many of you are now opposing. With our existing policy poverty is becoming an inevitable threat to overwhelm the whole nation. Those who were labled middle class yesterday are now joining the destitute category today. That is why our country enjoyed 15 million food aid dependent citizenes (25% of the total poulation). The number for those living below poverty line causes national embarassement for every one of us. What evil than the one we have can happen to us if we buy CUD's proposal of fonancial and economic reform? Am not sure, but i don't think we have any thing to lose - as we have already lost what we once had. The long terms promises of the reforms surpass and even worth the would be risks.
Posted by: Fas at May 21, 2005 9:20 AM
Are ebakiwotin Ato Shawul zim bilew behizbu simet lay wuha aychlisubet. Hizbu yemeretachihu, migib enditabelut engi, " Be electric bemisera mekina" enditasafirut aydelem. Mindinew yelele yemayhon neger mekebater? Dr. Beyene min yilu yihon?
Posted by: Wuy Wuy, Yet yidersal yalnew,... at May 21, 2005 12:11 PM
Dear Ato Hailu even I am happy with your action plan to addis but I would like to advice you to prioritze things according to our problem. However I belife with simple cost we can change many things in addis like to name all city streat..to have city map that will advice for tourist,.... many more
Posted by: hager wedade at May 21, 2005 2:09 PM
It is really surprising to see the priorities set by the CUD leadership for Addis Ababa and Ethiopia. It shows that they are not in touch with the reality on the ground in rural Ethiopia and only want to address their own business ego. This is again a dangerous trend for the country.
Ewnetu
Posted by: Ewnetu at May 21, 2005 2:43 PM
It is interesting to see a positive and possibly an alternative plan to the scare tactic pit forward by the current regime. Hailu Shawl seems to have a grasp on th major hurdle in Ethiopian economy, the govts entanglment in unwokable and untested economic policy. First and foremost, the govt has to liberalize the land tenement situation. If as ato shaul proposes the govt were to unleash this gorilla in the mist, meanning the land ownership issue, it is no miracle but will allow positive consolidation of land ownership in the countryside. This in and it by itself will enhance modern farming and more viable use of land, not to mention irrgation and conservation schemes, which in the long run will work in the countrys need to increase productivity in the agricultural sector of the economy. Thus the real green revolution and self sufficency in feeding itself....................and for once will be the bread basket in its truest form.....able to feed itself
Posted by: mulatu at May 21, 2005 2:45 PM
This is really interesting. It is very difficult for me to hide my utter dissapointed. I thought the composition of the opposition was from those regarded as the "elite of Ethiopia" . I had hoped that with their education and exposure, this trend Ethiopia currently finds itself in would be much more promising. Right now however, I am not that confident anymore. When I see what their plans are, really I say this people are not in touch with reality. For real, are these people kidding or what? Indeed what ethiopia needs is not an electric train, nor to become another zimbabwe or argentina (no offense)as previous commentators said. Sincerly you have to become realistic.
I am sorry to dissapoint Dr Nega, the economist, i thought that of all people he should know that theories and practices do not match. Please do not try to introduce other practices into Ethiopia just because they seem right on the paper. And your idea about World Bank is really ironical. I can't stop laughing out aloud. Even me without the slightest university education know that that AID does not come free. They give you money for whatever purpose they want not bc you wish to have it.
Honestly , if everything was as pictured by the opposition even the so called smart meles, would not have missed the opportunity to grab it?
Beleive Ethiopia's bed is not full of roses, there are some real challenges ahead and if you keep thinking in this lala world as one said in his earlier comment, you would be dissapointing a lot of Ethiopians and us the Diaspora which thought that really something positive was on the way.
You have a big challenge ahead. You are going to administer the city. The capital city of not only Ethiopia but of Africa and where most of the international community resides. Please come back to the real world and try to think clearly.
Posted by: a concerned diaspora at May 21, 2005 5:54 PM
Oh my goodness does anybody think for ETHIOPIA. Derg came distroyed whatever was related to the KING.
Ihadig came and distroyed whatever was Derg. Now CUD wants to distroy everything and start over. Really we can't afford to do it anymore. Can't they build up from wherever one stopped. I don't see that anywhere where democracy flourishes. I think it is a third world syndrome.
Posted by: ketmew at May 21, 2005 6:01 PM
When you don't understand things, don't take it as wrong.
The Egineer(Hailue), well experienced, worked for a lote of international organization knows what he is talking about. Let me put as one plus one in the way the commentator understad it:
1. Financial reform (tax, bank) to attract investors.
2. training based on the labor demand to minimize unemployment maily young people
3. Land reform to avoid government dictatorship, monopoly and to stop use them for political advantage.
4. infrastructure. No development without proper transport system and ofcaurse the society need the basic need, water.
His comment about Addis is if the party win only Addis.
I have never heared analysis like this from Meles 12+.
Posted by: tesema at May 21, 2005 11:05 PM
Overall what I have seen in the interview is an improvised and may be not too articulated answers from Dr. Hailu Shawel. Even his answers were not articulated cronologically and are mixed up short term and long term goals it shows his determination for persuing drastic and rooted changes. He has good observation on how the EPDRF has used every mechanism possible to control the power and even mislead it deficiencies. Thanks to God that the Ethiopian people does not see the shortcames in word articulations of CUD chairman in comparation to the manipulative EPDRF's prime minster but his willingness that things has to be changed in the current status in the country. I am very sorry for the shortness of their views of the snobs who posted here much of them are living in western country where politics does not affect everyday lifes. Let me remeber you that not any penny of forgin aid comes free (we are being debited for all aid we will recieve, some scholars even state that for each dolar in aid we are being debited two dollars). SO the EPDRF has just put the country in almost bancrupcy. In the other hand non of any advanced countries has achieved its advancment being isoleted. So Dr Hailu observation about forgein investment is true (specially when there is not enough private capital). The guys crying for the globalization just be more objective and ask your self is there anycountry today that does not look for forgein investment? Dr Hailu has said tax relaxation for forgein capital attraction but not in any his word has stated what model will be applied to protect the local investors (may be joint-venture with local investors 49%-51%), so that is another matter but believe me even the richest nations looks for forgien investment. And for the guy of the capacity building I am sure capacity bulding and local and forgein investments gos hand by hand. One does not have to wait that the state have to build all capacity building and later invite investors. If the invesotrs can be be involved in the capacity building process it is more competitive way to do it. EPDRF has gone all this years with its capacity building without any improvent to the improvished Ethiopian people. LET ME REMEBER YOU MOST OF CAPACITY BUILDING FUNDS SPECIALLY INFRASTUCTURUES ARE LOANS AND NOT AIDS. EPDRF has mismaneged a billion dollar/year funds risking ethiopian future generations. About the land policy, let me tell you most of the CUD active militanyts in the pas has been pesantsa who has been blackmaild by the EPDRF land policy. Again when Dr. Hailu talked about privatization it was about the peasnt should be the owners of the land they work (also use it for getting grants to access to farming machinery), and he never has told that the land of Ethiopia is on sale for forgein investors. Of course I am sure he is still in favor for having state ownership on national interest areas and even to have some restriction for foreiginer to take landownership in Ethiopia. These restriction are in almost all countries. The comments to Dr Hailu Shawel interview show how much of our diaspora fellows are a bit lost in getting clear picture about backhome condition.
My wishes for brighter Ethioipia
Posted by: Eskindir, Canada at May 22, 2005 7:12 AM
well this tells you you have to come prepared to a meeting of this importance! Addis is Ethiopia whatever you do on the capital reflects on the nation and if the only source of fund you propose each time is the world bank i much agree with that commentator who voted for the cud but now is much afraid...
Posted by: addisrepresentsethiopia at May 22, 2005 4:26 PM
Eng. Hailu,
I appreciate your answers. This is part of the many good things that you intend to do for us. It is great! South Addis Ababa is excellent for train and is an industrial area. What is bad if electric train rambles in Addis. I grew up near the "Frnaco-Ehtiopian Chemen de fer" rail road and it is the best means of transport for a city like Addis if it were specially a sub way had it not been for the cost.
Please do not be "kibitbit" and demand all from everybody without even dropping a tiny idea for the betterment of the people of Ethiopia.
These people have a lot of ideas and let us give them a chance to put it in practice. If they see that it wont work they are not dumbs like our earlier leaders they will change it or they will listen to what the people tell them to do and they will correct it. You see this is what we expect from our new leaders. To listne to what the people say and act and that is the difference.
Congratulation CUD on your success!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Tesfaye at May 23, 2005 10:54 AM
I saw Dr Hailu`s interview,it sounds really interesting,but it goes back to the same problem we have.A lot of Ethiopian`s/The Elite/believe Ethiopia means Addis ababa.His Big plan is about addis,little focus on the rural areas.The ethiopian economy based on the rural agriculture,and more than 70 % of the population live out side of big cities including Addis,but most of the focus goes to Addis and the other cities.
I think if we want to solve the problem of ethiopia,we need serious people who understand the rural area and the cities,not those people from the city/addis/who have little understanding of ethiopia,who try to compare ethiopia with europe or america.
Posted by: yohannes at May 23, 2005 12:17 PM
From the interview of Ato Hailu Shawl it seems that the CUD didnot expect to win and thus was not well prepared as to what its priorities should be if it ever came to power.
I also believe Dr Berhanu would have been a better chairman for the CUD
Posted by: YohGet at May 23, 2005 1:53 PM
Gentlemen’s!
The real answer for our problem is in the hands of our own people. As a financially deprived country we have to focus our policies and strategies on what we have plenty of.
As far as I know what we have in our hand is labor and land. Lets start from it ! Please do not fantasize as the leaders of CUD. As far as I know
We have no capital to build industries.
Even if we build the industry we have no purchasing power to buy its byproduct.
If we can’t consume what we have manufactured then we have to export it to sustain our industries.
To export we have to be competitive enough to sustain the competition.
Again as far as I know. There is no industry, which survives the global market competition with out strong local market.
Please
Please
Please
Lets stop the dreaming.
Finally! About CUD victory. To my knowledge CUD have won not because it has a right economic and or sound ideological options, rather it won because of nation wide uncertainty created by EPRDF such as
Civil service reform –which makes self-proclaiming bureaucratic kings planted in every governmental offices to wrote “customer is king” slogan in every of their offices.
City resettlement with out proper compensation.
And etc…
Posted by: zeimpex at May 23, 2005 1:58 PM
A dictatorship is not suitable for any country under any circumstances, at anytime in mankind's history--past, present, or future.
We are part of a Revolutionary Heritage and belief that "All Men are Created Equal".
We believe we possess Natural Rights which are given to all men by God alone, and which no government may take from us, or infringe upon.
The word used to describe these rights in the Declaration of Independence is "inalienable". That means "non-transferable". It follows no person can give his 'inalienable' rights to another. It also follows no group of people can give their inalienable rights to a Dictatorship.
All I ever needed to know about Communism I learned when the Berlin Wall, walled-out democracy, and re-learned when the same wall was hammered to pieces by the people who were walled-in, just fourteen years later.
Dictatorship is wrong if it exists in a two person nation, with one person oppressing the freedoms of the other one.
Belay
Posted by: Belay at May 23, 2005 2:30 PM
Citizens must remain Optimistic and Positive, We cannot allow dictators to reduce us to useless, ineffective relics.
A dictatorship is not suitable for any country under any circumstances, at anytime in mankind's history--past, present, or future.
We are part of a Revolutionary Heritage and belief that "All Men are Created Equal".
We believe we possess Natural Rights which are given to all men by God alone, and which no government may take from us, or infringe upon.
The word used to describe these rights in the Declaration of Independence is "inalienable". That means "non-transferable". It follows no person can give his 'inalienable' rights to another. It also follows no group of people can give their inalienable rights to a Dictatorship.
All I ever needed to know about Communism I learned when the Berlin Wall, walled-out democracy, and re-learned when the same wall was hammered to pieces by the people who were walled-in, just fourteen years later.
Dictatorship is wrong if it exists in a two person nation, with one person oppressing the freedoms of the other one.
Belay
Posted by: Belay at May 23, 2005 2:36 PM
I thought Bush was stupid, well lets say average, but what we have here is much much worse. I hope Eng. Haile will have competent people to guide him through. From the interview i can see how much Andrew was trying to help him organise his thoughts as if he was some elementary student. We like it or not he seems to be on his way to becoming our next PM, how depressing. This is the bitter sweet reality of democracy.
Posted by: visitor at May 24, 2005 12:39 AM
Real bitter sweet reality of democracy!! I was asking an innocent question about our readiness to complete libral democracy as a nation when we were on the verge of the election, also acknowledging the respect for people as a whole. As a native of our capital, and being just an interested concerned Ethiopian, I am really worried, if our Addis winners, which I congradulate are uniting on the union of being "the enemy of my enemy" rather than uniting on their programm. EPRDF, no matter what it does, I believe, never got the benefit of doubt if they ever are really Ethiopians. I wonder if we ask ourselves, do we consider the EPRDF as Tigreyans only, or do we see them as fellow Ethiopians that some of them happen to speak Tigrigna, Oromigna, ans so on.
What is Melese's fault, maybe being from Adowa? Well 2/3rd of our history was the Aksumite empire, and we really need to ask ourselves one more time if we are being fair with our accusations. But I know Iwill be rediculed, or even be labeled "banda" for even trying to have a fair regards about them.
I am sure the EPRDF atleast leaders will embrace this fact that our cities rejected them, and will work with the opposition, it will be a real educational experience, both for both sides as well as the voters in the whole country.
It really is my wish that a lot of people in my day to day life can be more respectful of other's and judge other's by their character's and performances rather than by their ethnic backgrounds.
Addis is one of the very few African cities that any person Ethiopian of foriegn can comfortabily go about their bussiness without being afraid of getting robbed or bieng mugged. I appreciate our people's discipline as well as the government's administration capacity, inspite of this many unemployed.
I hope our new administers will keep us safe and moreover they will make the future capital of Africa stay in it's rising status.
God Bless!
Posted by: wondwossen at May 24, 2005 2:45 AM
I don't know what some people wants to say. I am from tigray, but I don't feel that EPRDF's defeat is my defeat. Ethiopians are given their vote for better idea not for some thing like ethinic background, blood or else. It is really shame to see this days that EPRDF supporters are busy of propagating that they are beaten in Addis b/c of their ethinic background. Go to hell!!!!
"Yebelubet wechit sebariwoch" Did they forget how the people of Addis happily welcome them in May, 1991.
Posted by: Belay at May 24, 2005 10:31 AM
Meles lost Addis b/c he plays the ethnic card. The responses are a sad indicattion that we are a hard bunch to be ruled over.
Congratulations to CUD!
Posted by: Ityopywee at May 24, 2005 6:37 PM
For those who are huge fan of CUD and Mr. Hailu Shawel, I suggest you read ... Globalization and its Discontents by Joseph E. Stiglitz New York: Norton. June 2002. © Institute for International Economics ... then put in your thought about letting in foreign banks into Ethiopia at this stage.
Posted by: Abiye T. at May 24, 2005 6:53 PM
Sorry Andrew for my comment on the next topic.
I think lots of readers carried away like I did priviously. I asked everybody to be optimistic.
Some contradiction on what we all say
1- We don't agree on forign investment but tend to forget that is what Al-amoudi is and we have no problem with that.
2- We didn't like or called Eng. Hailue showel's infrastructur proposal out dated and out of touch, while we talk about the ring-road and the airport as the important developments in ethiopia.
3- many more...
Please let's not underestimat the man power in ethiopia and educated people in dispora. Go to every college and universties in U.S there are many educated people. Just here in Seattle and close by in portland: there are more than 50 professors and instructors in various institutes.
Ts
Posted by: Bole from seattle at May 25, 2005 7:55 AM
Meles lost Addis b/c he plays the ethnic card. The responses are a sad indicattion that we are a hard bunch to be ruled over.
Congratulations to CUD!
Dear Ityopywee
First of all I do not think you are accustomed to the current situation of Ethiopia and particularly Addis.
EPRDF lost the election not because of ethnicity driven politics or the like. it is just because of serious economic problems lingering the city coupled with insecurity brought with the resent unpopular (at list from Bureaucrats and there family and friends) civil service reform program.
Besides this fact, be noted that CUD won Addis not because it has better economic policies rather they were smart to use the prevailing economic and social situation to their advantage.
And this is what I like most from CUD.
Posted by: zeimpex at May 25, 2005 1:47 PM
ha! ha! ha!
every ethiopians' except:tplf,eplf,oplf &flasha tribe,theire leder ships & theire flowers.
doyou belive that this poletical asspicculation would denied the fucts & the truths had been hapened during the election periode? ithink it dosen't,if it for how long ?
in my openine the oly way that will bring to chang this durty poltical system is like the way mengetu's scapeed away !!!
so think about it i willjoine you imedately !!!
ethiopian tadi.
Posted by: tadi at May 26, 2005 10:56 AM
Over 15k people showed up here in DC opposing eprdf but especialy supporting the people in ethiopia. Tell me if this is not a "yellow Revolution". Many more demonstration planned In Denver, Dallas, Atlanta, Toronto, Seattle, Los Angeles, New York, and Chicago. We all should Start Praying. I really don't like the cosiquence for this trend.
Peace
MD
Posted by: Bole at May 26, 2005 9:45 PM
Why do people try to multiply the no of people participated in the the DC rally by 10? Are they cheating themselves ? why?????????? Do they think they are the only ones who can count?
http://www.ethioindex.com/gonewsfix.php?ethioindexnewsid=31256
Posted by: 1500 at May 29, 2005 1:39 AM
YELLOW REVOLUTION FOR ETHIOPIA IN THE US & CANADA? WHAT A NICE DREAM? WAKE UP MAN, WASH YOUR FACE AND CALL BACK HOME!
Posted by: Yellow at May 29, 2005 1:50 AM
1.Addis is overstaffed; Addis has a huge number of unemployed youngsters. So, will you add up unemployment or reduce it as you expect? 2.If you compare today's Ethiopia with today's America or Europe, then your argument on rural land privatization might be valid,if you see Ethiopia within itself and view that land privatization and even the idea of democratisation is a process in time, then you will be inline with the future plans of EPRDF.Otherwise you are in impractical abstractions of hopes to the rural community.3. the complex physical,social and economic problems of Addis can not be solved by giving priority to introduce a train line.That is a good idea,but not our immediate need. 4. Your dependence on NGOs to solve the problems in your would be administration is of less importance. No trust should be laid upon them as they can stop their efforts if you don't meet their multifaceted criteria.Announcing to the public that you will be supported by NGOs for development is frequently used for political consumption and not practical in most cases.Many argue that the support offered by NGOs if fruitless in many cases.The expert, procurement and administrative costs are more than the toatal direct investment on such development works as land irrigation projects.USAID, for example, has been for over half a century in Ethiopia.If I am not wrong, I never have seen a significant contribution of this organisation to alleviate the abject poverty established in the country other than supplying food aid at times of famine.Please don't give us a hopless hope.4.To change Addis, you have to work together with the regional governments, not to remain an island biogeographic landscape where a mass of predators would uncontrolably flow in.Finally I urge you not to use the the stingy word "Yegossa Politica", which you and your supporters used frequently as a means to produce more supporters.It looks pleasant for you people but is dangerous in its essence. "Administer yourself" in a democratic and peaceful/harmonous manner and "yegossa politica" are two different and irreconcillable concepts.Do you know how much trust people are missing upon you because of such ingenuinities? The way you used to win the ruling party in Addis and in some towns in Amhara needs a deep analyses and learn not to repeat them agian in the future election campain,so that it will help you to appear as a genuine opposition and a trustful winner in the rally. I wish you all the best in Addis and other constituencies that you won.
Bulcha
Posted by: Bulcha at May 29, 2005 12:05 PM
Nice piece! Keep it up
Posted by: zeimpex at June 2, 2005 12:38 PM
As a long observer of Ethiopia, I am so shocked that after so many years of destruction, lies, greedy government allowing your people to suffer and blantantly steal your votes from you that you would even think twice to vote for the current governement. Ethiopians are known to have dignity and pride in their country. For over a decade this governement has destroyed all your hopes until now, what other choices do you have?
The opposition parties lay out such strategies to bring you a brighter future. Do not fool yourselves, stand up for what you believe in, have hope and God will bring you justice and peace. Be patient but do not accept the cheating or lies the current government is forcing on you.
God Bless!
Posted by: concerned at June 6, 2005 10:03 PM
wow!i am very intersted when CUD won in Addis .but,i was extremely sad when Meles and his dictater NEBE for its unfair decision about vivid illegularities and its blind decisions concerning the post election. I want to some thing to PM Meles,please don't cheat ethiopians by any means you will leave the chair,since you are not permanently ceated.
Posted by: amadsu at September 15, 2005 1:23 PM
I do not care about the power I do care though about the children starving and walking naked. Because we are so busy worrieng about the power. Please stop identfying yourself by language and cearte for our children and elders peacefull nation. Spritual jealousy is killing me to death. When I see a young girl or boy happily and freely playing on the play ground or playing soccer, so on. There is not a day pass that with out thinking and worrieng about children back home and even here in America. You know even our children here are in crise. Peaple from all of the world come get better education built their native land. I know you may not like this because you are clouded by anger. We go from here and create problems for our nation our people, deserve better than this. We pass all the modern civization to all of the world but see where are we today. Look Eurpeans had the same problems, but learn from their mistakes look where they are today. Only peace, love, communication, respect, forgiveness, care to each other can build our country who suffring very bad, unless we learn from our mistakes and respect each nothing going to build our country. Please read by Richard Poe "Black Spark White Fire". Love you all, peace!!!
Posted by: Nibret Aga at May 14, 2006 2:16 AM
it is really shame full that i have been hearing from the media about deviaton of the cud
Posted by: simon worku at January 5, 2008 3:59 PM