As a gay Ethiopian it is always intersting to view comments about us. I was wondering though about the eduecation level of the NGO worker when she conclude there is no Ethiopian GAYS.I guess thatis ignorance Well it is shame for her she didn't notice hundereds do what they need to do close to her nose yet she fail to see see a God given nature. Thanks for not forget us but please try to forgive us instead of deny us.

True, Holding hands my suggest one thing one culture and another in other. I agree to the previous posting. There are plenty of Gay ethiopians in Ethiopia... and the rest of the world. I am Gay ethiopian. Gay people live in all part of the world... and i believe ethiopia is a part of the world.

The only reason we see more gays in different part of the world is because people come to terms of understanding and supporting us. I know Ethiopia may not be ready to come to full acceptence of gay people at this time... but I am sure there are some grass root activities going on... sooner or later our rights and being will be aknowledged and suppoeted.

The only message i may have do not judge us because of our sexuality... and remember every family have someone gay very close to them.... we can be your brother,sister,uncle,aunte,father,mother.... or cousins and bestfriends.... so before you say something bad about us think twice about it for a second.

Hell no! There is no way ethiopia will allow openly Gay Practice. We the real people of ethiopia would rather die than approving Gay right in Ethiopia. First of all this shit is come to topic with B.S. White European who still want to demolish that beautiful and unmixed culture of Ethiopia. We ethiopians (Muslim to Christian) will hold hand to hand and kick back the issue as we did to Fashist Italy!

I absolutely agree that Ethiopian Gay people are those who have born in different country specially in Europe or USA other wise we are clean as blue sky in the summer!

As an Orthodox Christian who happens to be homosexual, but believes homosexual practice is wrong, I try to get people to understand the following, but it's hard.

1. Homosexual orientation or any sexual attraction for that matter is often not chosen.

2. Homosexuality exists throughout the world in various manifestations.

3. Homosexuality and the fact that homosexuality is often (not always) fixed at birth or at an early age was not unknown to our forefathers. Speak to farmers or priests, and they know and understand, often far better than some city folk.

4. Just because one has homosexual attractions does not necessarily mean one engages in homosexual behaviour. The identification of everyone who as same sex attractions with the word 'gay' or a certain subculture is wrong.

5. Like muesik says, someone close to you could be a homosexual. 'Worse' yet, you could have a homosexual child.

In my view, politicizing homosexuality in Ethiopia, or any other non-Western country for that matter, the way it has been in the West is not necessary and not for the best. I think it is a social issue which social institutions such as the churches have to address slowly.

Given Ethiopian society's attitudes towards promiscuity, addressing the issue of sexuality as a whole would be a good start.

This is nice

I am Ethiopian and a Christian. I think homosexuality is a sin, for the simple reason that the Bible says so. Obviously, everybody doesn't follow the teachings of the Bible, so..to the Christians that have same sex attractions, I would like to say :do not be decieved by science's attempt to prove that homsexuality is a natural act and go ahead and engage in the acts. Who said all natural things are good for us? All the feelings that lead us to sin (hatred, anger, etc.) are natural! Sexuality is natural, but we are told not to exercise it outside marriage! There are are poisonous plants and animals and they are NATURAL! Natural doesn't mean its all good. What you have to look at is whether you wanna worship the Lord or not, and whether you wanna do what he commands you to do. If you believe in him and what he says, then he will be with you through your struggles, your failures, your triumph, etc. God doesn't expect you to struggle through it all by urselves. And he knows how hard it is for you to struggle with this feeling. But what matters to him is the intentions of your heart...whether you believe in his word (the word that says homosexuality is detestable infront of him). What matters most to him is the intentions of your heart, and your sincere wish to be freed from the shackles of your desire, not the failure or triumph of your flesh. And the more you believe in his word, the more your spirit is fed and strengthened, so that it can over come the needs of the flesh.

As for the rest, as much as I think homosexuality is wrong, I do not think it should be politicised as someone has pointed out before. I do not see a point in banning people from practicing a sin. I do not if that is supposed to serve God or the government or anybody. We can't say the government and the people because this is a not a crime that is done against another member of society. We can't say it serves God, because I am sure God doesnt take pleaure in people's free will being forced by other human beings. However, there is a point where the case comes to cross lines with the interests of the people and thus the government. Forexample when gay activists start campaigning to have everyone's child thought at school that homosexuality is a natural and an OK act. In such cases, majority vote should handle the matter. Christians should prepare for the worst on this earth. I can't help thinking that a day will come when people come banging on doors to "bring out the guests and engage in homosexual acts with them" (just like the story of Lott and the three angels in Sodom and Gomorrah). There might come a day when they won't have the majority to vote for the kind of presidents they want that will pass laws they like and veto the ones they dont like. There may not be majority evangelicals always in the US. Jesus prayed to his father so that he "protects us" while on earth, not remove us from it. So, we should be strong in our faith and rely on God, not our politicians. We should make sure that our childrens go to school along everybody, and come out with the principles u have thought them at home, not with what the world tells them.

Having said this, I can't help wonder tho....I can't help wonder when legalizing sin will stop. Is marriage between siblings gonna be campaigned to become "acceptable" some day? On the basis that they love eachother and that love is natural?

It seems amazing to me that so many people have such a problem still with homosexuality. This is NOT a "western disorder". GOOD GRIEF! Sexual pleasure and desire are not disorders and that is that! Frankly, the gay Ethiopians who have come to the "western" world to live were gay when they arrived. It is not a disease, there is nothing to catch. Come on, people...this is not about Africa vs. the World. I might add that Christianity and Islam are much more recent imports to Africa than sex is, so why are they not being booted-out of the country too? I have had lovers who are Ethiopian and from other parts of Africa and they are sexual beings and pround, beautiful people, whose only shame comes from the religions imposed on them by NON africans. Care to comment anyone?

Who are we to judge others. Gay or not we all need to work together to support one Ethiopia.

Beca, New York, NY (Not gay)

I stumbled into this site, and was surprised to read that we now have a generation of Ethiopians discussing the issue. This is a giant step in itself, I must concede. Recognizing that, I like to add a dime's worth of my views, so we infuse a measure of rationale to the discussion.

1. For a truly ancient and unique culture as that of Ethiopia's, it would be the wrong approach to discuss the issue in light of the experiences of the Western world. I agree with Saul's posting above that our forefather's knew about homosexuality. What is more, they dealt with it in the best way they knew how, and rather in the most tolerant and non-judgmental way. They accomodated the practice in the age-old wisdom only such nations are capable of doing. Not wanting to engage in the hubric act of playing god, or second judge God's creation, our forefathers supported a number of monastic institutions, where society's "odd balls", whatever their persuation - intellectuals, homosexuals, clairvoyants, and the devoutly pious - could carry on away from the mainstream society. This was the little talked about genius of Ancient Ethiopia's state organization. Perhaps there is a lesson we can learn from it, although I am mindful that the imperatives of the modern age would not acquiesce to a secluded institution for homosexuals. Neither is it desirable. Homosexuals are not odd balls, a minority though they may be in a any society.

Incidentally, I take exception to Alex Bordin's view, posted above. He opined that Christianity and Islam are much more recent imports to Africa than sex is. To the contrary, Ethiopia, and therefore Africa, nurtured the earliest Christians and the earliest Muslims, long before Rome and Arabia legitimized the faiths. Ethiopia contends with Armenia as the first Christian state. As well, the First and the Second Hegira took place in and to Ethiopia. The early followers of the Prophet Mohammed, including the Prophet's daughter and cousin, fled to Axsum seeking the protection of the Christian king from the persecutions of the Quarish, Mohammed's clan, in Mecca. The better known Third Hegira is now celebrated in the annual Haj piligrimage, and it marked Mohammed's victorious Hegira from Medina to Mecca. But I digress. .

2. I believe it is the wrong approach for Ethiopians to discuss homosexuality in the context of religion. Certainly not in the tradition of the fire and brimstone evangelicals of the west. Humanism and science should be our guide, in my opinion. To its credit, the Ethiopian society has always been a tolerant society. However, long refined customes also dictate social mores, and the in-your-face type of politicized approach, which is an out-growth of societies defined by Bill of Rights, is incompatible with the collective psyche of the land. An open acceptance of homosexuality is in the future, but at this stage, forceing the issue blatantly promises no better benefits than inflaming and antagonizing.

3. This generation of Ethiopians should be very careful not to adopt or reject issues, such as homosexuality, without a thorogh understanding of the implications of its decisions. Unless it is our decision to close off the rest of the world as we have successfully done for thousands of years, homosexuality will be an accepted practice, whether we like it or not. So why allow the nation to be frog-marched to what is inevitable? There is also a greater danger for any nation or community that does not tolerate or accept its homosexual population. I have observed that homosexuals, for a yet not wholly explained reason, constitute the most creative and the most progressive segment of any society. What a shame for a nation like Ethiopia to loose its creative contingent? Ever wonder why we owe so much of our philosophy and artistic and historical legacy segment to our ancient monastic orders? Our universities have yet to match that achievment. Those of us who had the opportunity to visit San Francisco also know how that city has perfected the art of robbing communities accross America of their creative elements. The city welcomes all the restless energy of American youth, absorbes outcasts from the Mid-west, from the bible belt (the south), and from the conformist North-east, gives them refuge, and harnesses their energy. It is why San Francisco remains America's jewel, the incubator of all that is avant garde and progressive. It is the labratory of the world. There is a reason why California, specially, San francisco, and not Texas, would incubate and pioneer a computer industry, a movie industry, a wine industry, and now a biotech industry. Fellow Ethiopians: you must learn to overcome your legendary pride, and learn the ways of the modern world, however incompatible you may find it with your long-distilled culture.

As for me, much as I harbor a fond feeling for Ethiopia, its people, and the truly spectacular landscape and exotic culture that formed me and remains etched in the memory of my youth, I have found it difficult to reconcile the power of my erotic passions with the conservatism of the land. So, Ethiopia smolders only in my memory.. hoping this Mother of Nations catches up with me, reclaim me, and take me back to its bosoms in the few short decades left of my life.

I am very upset by the comment given in the middle "Christianity and Islam are imported to Africa". Watch your words! Ethiopia is the first Christian and Muslim Land before any other country on earth. Whether you believe in Bible or Koran or scientifically ... ethiopia is the start of all this theory except damn gay thing. I don't really mind if i see a gay man or to have a friend but personally i don't want to be a gay. But to prove your gay theory don't fuck up our history. Even Americans are not comfortable by gay people and I don't need a man to touch me and give me a sexual look.

Kaleb,
Virginia, USA

Hallo everybody, even if it is amazing such kind of issue in this site, it is also supporting to teach others, as much as i know to be homesexuall is not a sin bcs they are also a creater of God, everybody created as he or she is, no body wanted to be a gay, it is nature, God create everybody as we are, so pls do not have negative attitude towraeds gays, specially in Ethiopia it is stranger but there are lots, but because of family problem and unacceptance lots are sucide why??? we should accept them as they are, i do not mean that everybody appreciate it but do not give any negative attittude towardes them, have u ever noticed my ur family member?? bcs tradition and culture those are also forced to marry and have a kid, so before blaming other pls let us think twice, so let us them accept,
thanks

Hello, I also have to say it is refreshing to see my people tackling this topic. I just came back from Ethiopia. I’ve lived in the U.S for the past 10 years. I was in my early teens when I came and I became conscious of my sexuality mostly in America. Ever since I arrived here, from every direction I was told not to give affection to men. I felt embarrassed to even hug my own brother. Everything was considered “gay”. You tell your friend you like him “it’s gay” you want to dance with your friend “it’s gay” you feel like sharing the problems in your life with your friends “you’re a sissy and it’s gay”.
I personally feel like this country and most westernized countries take away your souls. They take a way the fuel for life, religion and humanity. They take away love from the individual, the family and from the whole nation.

I’m saying all of this because after being in the U.S for 10 years and for the most part being Americanized, I fell in love with Ethiopia this past summer. The first thing I noticed was the love people have for one another. Certainly people are people and I’m sure there are a lot of assholes. But the was people felt about showing affection in public was truly beautiful. Men will hold hands, women hold hands there was trust and loyalty between friends that I can read from miles away.

Sexuality is part of all of us. I’m not an expert on this but from personal experience I could tell you that as far as I could remember (kindergarten) I was attracted to boys. So for a long time in America I though I was a horrible little gay boy. Now I relies I’m not horrible and that I also like girls. I’m not against religion. But I don’t agree with the way most people practice religion or any of their other beliefs. I think we all have to start asking ourselves who we oppress people everyday with our beliefs. If you have the right to tell me that I can have sex with another man just because you think it’s a “sin” what makes you think I can’t have the right to say I could sleep with another man that also wants to sleep with me in our own privacy even if you think it’s a sin. Some one that thinks homosexuality is a sin, tell me how that oppresses you. Honestly I would like to know because I don’t want to be the oppressor.

I know this is long but I also had something to say about our culture. It’s beautiful and lovable. But specialty for those of you who have been to Ethiopia lately have you seen our culture. Our dream has become that damn American pie that made us leave our country. If we are proud to get the Italian out of there we also got to put a stop to the idea that to be a great nation we have to be like the white people. Because admitted or not but all us city folks want to be like the “Americans” and you know all our children do too.
Now somebody please tell me how proud we are to be Ethiopians. Because I know I’m damn proud and I’m not going to try to deal with any issue that our country has in the western way even though that’s mostly what I’ve been taught. Oh and you know the people in the south of Ethiopia. Guess what? They’re Ethiopians too. Maybe we can be proud of that first.

Peace and Love to all of us!!
Los Angeles

I do not belive for a second there are gays in ethiopia. But if there are any they should be stoned to death or burn on steak of fire in public so that god fearing people of ethiopia would not be held responsible for allowing it to happen.

It is fine that you don't believe that there are no gays in Ethiopia. But to write statements saying "they should be stoned to death", that is really inhuman and barbaric. And you shold leave "the god fearing people of Ethiopia" out of it. Does your god teaches killings..... if so I am glad I am not a part of it. But I think your statement serves the intended purpose which is to get some attention....

And yes there are gays in Ethiopia.

I don't understand why God would hate me 'cause I'm gay. Duh! This ain't a matter of choice. I was gay when I was born. God Himself made me queer.
There are about 70 million Ethiopians in Ethiopia. And guess what, at least 5 million is gay. They're there. Most gay Ethiopians are married to the opposite sex , have kids and never slept with the same sex. Others go underground and sleep with both sexes. If they prefer living in that kind of life, well, what can I say, good for them! But I have the right to choose what suits me too. I can sleep with men, get sexually satisfied, and have a partner when needed.
The legal issues and quesitons of gay rights in Ethiopia are yet to be raised after many years, I'm afraid. Europe (considered very liberal towards gay people) was like Ethiopia not so many years back. Generations change and with Ethiopia getting more wired each year, our sons\daughters or even moms\dads will start coming out of the closet. Then it wont be "kill those faggots!" anymore. It will be... "kill my faggot brother"... or "kill my dyke daughter". Think about it. If being gay is not a matter of choice, why would Ethiopia have less gay people than Europe or America? Could it be that God just preferred to make more gay out of Europeans than Ethiopians? Why would He do that? 'Cause Ethiopians are holier and more righteous than others?

Queer,
Addis Ababa, Ethiopia.

I have read all of the coments. and from all of the comments the last ones really got my attension. No gay people should be stoned to death nor should be thought as a right thing. If you are a christian I clearly tell you that homosexuality is wrong. (Sedome gemora)
But people dont forget that we have one leader that his forgiveness could never be expressed. He gave his life to sinners. you are gay or not we all have and share the same sins. we might not be gay but sleep with different women everyday, and in God's eyes thats the same for him. WE are ALL SINERS. But God gave us free will. I love all people weather gay or not but I will teach them that gay is wrong sleeping with more than your wife is wrong and all of the sins is wrong and equally wrong. We are all born with a sin. sin being an adultry, sin being gay, sin killing people. But our job is to fight our flesh from wrong doing and testements. But no gay people of siners should be stoned.
Remember Mariam magdaline poeple. she was a sinner but Christ lift her up and said you are free dont do sins no more.

so if you are gay, loose the attitude of "I am born with it" and start thinking, how to fight your sin that you were born with. and all of you that think gay should be stoned remember all of your sins that you have done before and fight your self from wrong doing and forgiveness
thank you and may God bless Ethiopian People.

I am a lesibian. Who is madly in love with an Ethiopian woman.We have been seeing each other for about 8months now.She wants to be with me and I want to be with her.However she recently broke things off with me because she says her family would never understand and she has to make them happy.I am in such pain behind all of this.I often ask myself why did she allow herself to fall in love with me if she knew how it was gonna be.I love God and I almost cried when I read that last comment saying how we should try to fight our sins.I have tried with Gods help it didn't work.Am i to be unhappy all my life and try to live as the world feels i should.Or should I make myself happy and continue to love females and just live my life the best way I can.I am not hurting anyone by loving this woman!! keep me in your prayers that I can continue to be a strong loving person in this cold cold world

Hey this is for the girl (AJisha) I am going to be in your prayers sister. I am going to pray not because I am holy but because I care. sister dont wory. look let me tell you a story about me. I am a deacon in the Orthodox tewohedo faith. a deacon is a man that serves his church and has the option of being a nun or a priest(with a wife) when he's is in that stage. I am suppose to stay a vergin until I find Ms. Right. look I get tested by women every single hour and minute. I am going through what ur going through. But it doesnt make it alright for both of us to fulfill our desires. keep praying girl.

in the bible ST. Paul said if a men see's men acuse me of being a sinner because I ate meat than I will stop eating meat. no because it's a sin but because I am a christian that is trying to live the life of Christ.

our faith should be like Paul. for me getting married to a girl is not a sin but I am not going to get married and I want to be a nun because I want to show the world that you can do it. u can outcome ur flesh pleasure. sister you are loved by Christ even bigger than me because u have addmitted that it's a problem and u want someone to pray for u and I will. write back.

This struggle is very hard to deal with.From a small child I was attracted to girls and I didnt even know what gay was!!!Now that I am an adult I still am attracted to women.I know its not right according to the bible I just dont know how to deal with it.that's why I ask for the prayers of everyone including myself.I pray for me as well.I feel like I am about to lose my sanity at times.Like right now!thanks for your kind words and support.I know God loves me he wakes me up everyday and gives me life and he shows through others that he is real and taking care of me regardless of how I have been living my life.I have so many blessed people around me who are angles sent from God above...My love for Christ will never die.

"God loves me" thats the spirtit sister. I was so happy that u responded like this. you se sister this generation is different from our fathers before because this generation, way inside there flesh they know its a wrong thing, but they try to proove themselves its ok with science. But you sister, u are born with the attitude of our father. look at st. peter he betrayed his lord saying he doesnt know him. but when the he heard the chicken's voice he cryed to God for forgiveness. But juda he betrayed him for 30 dollors, and because he didnt want to ask for forgiveness he killed himself. we are feeled with people of judieas today. we dont know forgiveness we try to take the easy way. juda thought he could kill himself than when chirst goes to save adam he will save him also. but he was wrong. thats what kind of people we have today in this world. They its wrong but because they want to live anm easy life they theory's and myths to tell themselves its ok.

sister I will pray for me and you and the world. your a strong one pray and pray sister because your in the right track. ur not lost. ur the found sheep.

tip- chirst said- men doesnt have to live with bread but the love of God.

we dont have to live with sexuality eatheir. if u are a chirstian what should comncern u is not ur flesh pleasure but the pleasure of the next life with christ remember that people.

I am happy for all of you that love God. And I'm not going to tell you your wrong, I don't even think your wrong. But just like you have that freedom that choose to love and honor God in the form you want, you also should let other people have that freedom to choose to love the same gender in all and any way they want to. And remember everyone is not Christen. Yes all Ethiopian are not Christen and Muslim so keep that in mind. And not being Christen does not make people sinners. I know it says in the Bible people have the right to choose the religion they want to practice and the life style they want to practice. I love God and no one can tell me other wise. And I'm love all genders and sexes; women, men and intersexed, transgender and all the other people we as people of the world don't want to talk about or except. And remember God is love and God is freedom of the soul. And free your souls people God don't want us to suffer. God don't want us so die of gilt. God's love is not gilt. There is so much to learn from this world and please don't close you self of from it. Trust me God don't want us to do that. I love all of you who don't feel loved in this world of discrimination of hate. And remember not to hate others, it hurts all of us including your self.

In most of Ethiopians view, homosexuality is wrong. We have imported enough sins already from other nations. We have been the worst generation in Ethiopia's history and I wish God will forgive us. Ethiopia is a land where the litergy and all forms of praising takes place everyday and almost many times a day. To encourage this wierd sexual orientation is inviting another millennium of punshiment from the AlMighty, because God kept quite of homosexuality sin it doesn't mean that He approves it. But He is giving us a time to turn our faces to Him. As all you can see, there are mass murders and even broader sins going on in this world, God is silently looking, then does it mean He is approving them. NO. BIG NO. We are living in the world that is at the verge of her last days. We are going to see more. More foolish librations provided by satan. Christ has said it enough, "even the chosens ones will be descieved". Ethiopians are the Chosens one for GOD. We are the first nation who minted His Holy Name on our coins, we are the first nations who have accepted Christ of His God Head, we are the first nations who showed love for immigrants regardless of their religious difference from us i.e. giving asylum for the first muslims. In short "WE ARE PEOPLE OF GOD WHO UNDERSTOOD HIS LOVE" We never participated in the Crusade while we were one of the SuperPowers of the world. Wjy should we now participate in the insanity of the world. As an Orthodox Christian, I tell for the those who are lured by the devil to become queers, to repent and go to the Holy Waters provided by the Great Monasteries of Ethiopia, and for those who don't believe in this, please ask GOD directly to listen to your despair and overcome your confusion, it can be religious or sexual orientation confusion. That was how Abraham got to know our God. He asked answers. Why should you not. And for those who believe that they are born being homosexuals, forget it. Nobody is born with any possessions. But instead God created us in a great culture that teaches decency. If God wanted us to be homosexuals, he would have created Jack and william not Adam and Eve. He only created ADAM AND EVE, no other people with other sexual orientations. The first undivine things done by Adam and Eve was disrespecting his Laws, they were punished for it, the second was murder, Cain was punished and many sins followed and then Homosexuality was done and we all know what the punishment was "HELL ON EARTH". God will never change his rules b/c He is always the Same and always HOLY. Then the word of God, Jesus Christ, One of The Holy Trinity came to us to cleanse our sins and he did so. From mow on, if we are smart enough, we will confess our sins as he thought us and be free or we will choose the fire as he has said it Himself(I have prepared water and fire, you are the ones who choose the right for you). We we want we can ask Him for His help on what we should choose. But since He us told us the secret of the paradize and hell, we can only face the consequences of our sins in our afterlife. Those of you who are not gays already please don't consider it for a second and also please don't become reasons for the distruction of both the mind and soul of your brothers or sisters by saying the wrong things that your are not even sure for yourself. If you want to discuss more, feel free to contact me by e-mail (megabit16@yahoo.com). I am also a person who ones travelled on the wrong path and due to the Love of the Christ, became one of the discovered sheeps. God loves Every each one of us, no matter who we are but till we become resistant to His Love knocking the gates of our hearts.
Thank you for your time.

WOW after the last comment I cant add anything else I was here to add something to Surafel's comment because he is saying God has let us choose our own path. It is true he did, but he didnt say it that way, he said there is fire and water provided for you, you choose. which means there is the fire all the sins in this world killing,adultering, stealing, lying,ect......

and surafel u also said You got to choose our ways and our God, NO NO NO we didnt chose him, he chose us. we didnt choose the way to live, believe me I dont want to feast more than 200 days of the year but because I need to worship my lord and thank him to what he did to me and plus to control my body hormones from sins I feast. he gave me that ruling, Christ did. So Whearas we are not the choosers we are the chosen like the last comment said.

REMEMBER ONE MORE THING

GOD CREATED ADAM AND EVE NOT ADAM AND STEVE

OK, so…. We are making this about Christianity. Yes, I can understand if you are living as a “true Christian” that you would make your life decisions based on the guide of the bible and your understanding of it. And I have said this before and I’m saying it again because I keep feeling like you’re not getting my point.

#1 we are not all christens!!! There for your belief about how “God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve” does not apply for other believers. It sounds great though :)

#2 As good people, and I do believe you all are good people at heart. I challenge you to study life and Mother Earth. Though many are taught and believe this earth is created as a stage for us humans, so we can be the center of this life, I don’t think it works quite that way. I do accept we might be more complex intellectually than other animals but I don’t think that takes us out of the cycle of life. We are just like all the other living things on this earth; plants, fish, lions, monkeys, birds ect… Saying all this to get to the point that this “unnatural” “god forbidden” thing called other sexuality other than heterosexuality is no specific to humans only. It is part of nature that keeps the world going. And for me modern religion has been the only part of this world that has a problem with sexuality in general. Though I do believe that religion in general teaches most of us love, compassion and acceptance, I think it is also translated and created to OPPRESS people. Dogs don’t believe in god yet they know and understand to give love and loyalty to their puppies and even to us. And the many animals we don’t care to acknowledge live a life style that works for their community in a nondestructive way. But we are not able to do that, with these rules that we believe must be followed to become good beings. We already are good beings. A child doesn’t get up and hits his sister until he sees his mother hitting him. We are naturally capable of being not horrible beings. But it’s the nurturing of hate and fear that make us all go “crazy”, for a lack of a better word. Seven years of Catholic school tough me to be afraid of life, to feel guilty and to be judgmental of other people. SO IF GOD IS LOVE THEN WHERE IS THE LOVE? When there are a lot of teaching in all realigns about being loving and open, why do we stick to the hate and closed mindedness. Why can’t we look at our sisters and brothers and accept them for who they are? If you don’t understand someone else that’s ok, as questions and try to understand but to just say “OH well God said in the bible ‘homosexuality is a sin’ so you’re a bad human being and you need to change” is not very loving. And I believe heaven and hell are places on this Earth in our selves. So I choose to be happy and love myself for all the things I come with whether anyone likes it or not. So my friends I’ve seen my hell and I’ve seen my heave. And heaven was a place fool of love, acceptance and nature so I want to share that with all who want it.

#3 Life exists on this Earth outside of the bible. Make sure you explore it. Trust me, God would approve :)

Thank you for all of you who are able to have this dialogue with honesty and respect!

I am academic from Ethiopia working on sexuality. I am now about to embark on the study of homosexuality in Ethiopia particularly in Addis Ababa. I will be grateful if you could assist me in identifying written documents (if any) about it. I need also “NAMES,PHONE NUMBERS,GAY SPOTS OR HANGOUTS IN ADDIS OR OTHER PARTS OF ETHIOPIA”. I hope that this study may serve as an eye opener both for the government and the public at large to recognize the existence of this sexual orientation in Ethiopia and come up with tolerant policy and public opinion.

Thanking you in advance

This is too good to be true. Ethiopians discussing homosexuality? Damn! And some were actually able to write their dissent without hurling insults? Andrew, how much editing did you have to do to get these sensible set of comments?

As for some of the gay/lesbians who posted here, there are some of us Ethiopians, very straight, and very supportive of sexual freedom! I have hopes that Ethiopians will find a way to deal with homosexuality in the same way they deal with religion. Haymanot yegil, sexuality yegil, hager yegara!

p.s what's the Amharic word for 'sexuality'? I imagine it will be some heavy handed extraction from Ge'ez ...

Hello People,
What fallows is one of the best comments I have ever seen in my entire life: I wish I could meet the person, Hellno, who posted it, and would give him a million thanks.

Posted by: Hellno at April 27, 2005 09:20 PM

"Hell no! There is no way Ethiopia will allow openly Gay Practice. We the real people of Ethiopia would rather die than approving Gay right in Ethiopia. First of all this shit is come to topic with B.S. White European who still want to demolish that beautiful and unmixed culture of Ethiopia. We Ethiopians (Muslim to Christian) will hold hand to hand and kick back the issue as we did to Fascist Italy!

I absolutely agree that Ethiopian Gay people are those who have born in different country especially in Europe or USA other wise we are clean as blue sky in the summer! "

DsgNews

For all the sinners who think that they are born a sinner i.e gay,etc., Christ died on the cross to take that sin away. We, human beings, are all sinners because Adam sinned. If your forefathers sinned, that could manifest itself today in different ways. Therefore, though I doubt that it is natural, it is possible for you to be carrying your forefather's sin("gife"). There is a new and living way that you can be saved. When Jesus was talking to Nicodemus, he told him that he must be born again. And in 2 Corinthians 5:17, it says "..., if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come."
For those who know that homosexuality is a sin, your hope is in Christ. If you truly and sincerely pray to Christ and surrender to him, you will not be a sinner because he has already paid the price.
My bible tells me that those who have not heard the gospel will be judged by the law that is written in people's heart. I say my bible because you obviously don't believe in the bible. For those of you who do not know that homosexuality is a sin, I dare you to seek the truth. Because at the end of a day judgement will come. The history of Sodom & Gomorah shows you the path that you are following. Jesus Christ died on the cross to save us from that judgement. I say give him a chance. If somebody truly loved you and died for you, he at least needs to have a chance. God also loves you so much that he gave his only son for you. God loves the sinner but not the sin and since God is a JUST God, judgment is imperative. Prepare yourself for that day.

A long time resident of the US, I have had many gay and lesbian friends, co-workers, employees and customers, including my personal doctor. I have found them to be as perfectly human as my self (straight), and that, I will be the first to say, is quite imperfect. As individuals, in every regard except for their preference of sexual partner, gay folks are just like the straight folks. Some men may be feminine, some women masculine, so what? I have never met any openly gay Ethiopians, but I have come to realize that one male and two female relatives were almost surely gay - and there are more out there, I am sure. Traditionally, wise men and women had methods for accomodating and insulating the gay element without parading or hating. Those who think homosexuality is "imported" or a self-indulgent "choice" of lifestyle fail to understand the level of internal pain & anguish and external abuse that most gay people endure - inflicted by society, family and sometimes themselves. Speaking from my own experience, there are far far greater offences commited by men (including many Ethiopians) pursuing women than I have seen commited by gay men pursuing straight men. So there is no reason at all to attack gays out of fear, if you are not interested they are not either- contrast that to the experience of the average straight Ethiopian young woman.
Tolerance (mechachal) has always been an Ethiopian strength, it is not a weakness. Whatever religious faith one comes from, I say choose the path of peace, love and understanding, and not that of hating and ostracizing our gay brothers and sisters.

Tadias all

Very good to see more and more people coming out to discuses about gay Ethiopians issues in a positive way...... or at least in a supporting way. It takes a while for our society to understand and support us. One thing I hate is that when people say gay people "chose" to be gay..... think about it why on earth a person chooses to be gay, where most of the society gay bashes, harass and endangers gays..... So this is not the life we chose, we just are.

Well am gay am an Ethiopian gay but I don’t live it out gay as a life. This is due to the culture tradition and also the religion faith I follow and brought up...but I happen to meet with different folks like me both Ethiopians and none Ethiopians and what I realized is that ( for Ethiopians) even those who live the life are not totally happy with it esp. those in Addis it is a price they have to pay their sexuality over all the values they have as an Ethiopian so it is a confused path many take.............but Pls. what I want to say is being gay is not a crime....a crime is something that goes against one person on the intention to harm other that is a crime!!!...

"Gay people "chose" to be gay"
For me it's like saying, the Human Race chose to be on Earth rather than Mars....This is SICK!Isn't it?

And I have seen someone who posted above that puts Gays as enemy of Ethiopia relating us with Fascist Italy!...but what really amazes me is that another person compliments him/her for that post...and This is SUPER SICK!

Nonetheless, our problem, Ethiopians, we still couldn't tolerate Diversity...but we happen to be one of the diveresed countries in the world. And unless we begin to tolerate the difference between us, we won't build a healthy society.
But I know, no matter what, our society wouldn't stone-to-death homosexuals as that of Irans. Of course, there some who may want to do that who are inhumans; but we will approach them with LOVE in which eventually, the will retain their humanity!

Hey lt's get things straight! There are no two posible truths.Truth is always one and absolute. Don't tell me God created you a gay! No he created a man and a woman period! homosexual tendencies are developed conscoiusly and are the results of sin. HOMOSEXUALITY IS SIN AND U BETTER REPENT BEFORE YOU ARE DOOMED!

I just want to say that i'm an Ethiopian woman who has lived in Europe for the most part of my years.(not gay myself) I was adopted by europeans and have had the oppertunity to experiance both of my cultures. Ethiopia is a land of strong religeous beliefs and i don't doubht that many of you believe in what you are saying. "Gay people should deny their temptations". Think about what is happening. This reminds me of a period of time which started the Holocaust in 1939. Hitler believed that when he was killing millions of jewish people that he was doing the Bibles work, in fact the Catholic church didn't attempt to intervine for years after the begining of the mass murders. THINK ABOUT IT, are we doing the same thing?? Denying people their rights to free expression to Love to simply being themselves. And for those who are afraid that gay people will go on a rampage and start turning the whole world gay and leave Ethiopia without a next generation then think about this. There has ALWAYS been gay people throughout history and there always will. They have failed to be turned hetrosexuals by the millions of us that are, so as far as turning the rest of the world gay- impossable.
I'm not saying that the Ethiopia should suddenly become a gay haven but bit by bit we can advance in this and become a bit more liberal, I think that if we wait patiently we will se a far more liberal Ethiopia where people can be as and how they wish!
Always supporting gay rights in a homophobic world. Think about the above and remember ALWAYS stay safe!!

Most gay Ethiopians in North America are ashamed of their heritage and country. Most of them identify themselves as gay not Ethiopians. Why are they here demanding equality in country they ashamed to associate their identity?

The following article was from gay site (Behinde the Mask)focused on discussions among Ethiopians homosexuals centered on their identity.

In the struggle for gay equality, it's important to at least get others to listen to what we have to say. Not because we have to get a majority of people on our side: civil rights does not (or more accurately, isn't supposed to) depend on majority approval.

We need people to listen to us so that we can explain to them why allowing the government to limit the civil rights of gays is dangerous to the civil rights of straights as well.

Abandoning our history and heritage and telling others "We're Gays! We're not Ethiopians!" is not conducive to get the other side to listen. Demanding equality and later abandoning the struggle whenever we are challenged by the oppressor is not only pointless, it's downright dangerous. People don't need much of a reason to continue to discriminate, and being disrespectful to our heritage and background is giving them that ammunition.

Identifying ourselves merely based on our sexual orientation makes homophobia easy. If we just focus on our sexuality and ignore our other identities, what kind of message are we sending? Who can blame straight people for thinking gay men are nothing more than sex-crazed perverts? Why are we blaming guys for telling us being gay is not Ethiopian if we abandon our heritage upon learning our attraction for the same gender? Are we not fulfilling prejudicial stereotypical assumptions? Is this not self- defeating?
Self-defeating behaviour and actions can only be stopped by the one who is performing them. Straights can't stop gay Ethiopians from behaving in ways that put people on the defensive and therefore less inclined to listen to what their advocates are saying.

We must stop those behaviours ourselves. We must take back control of our lives. We must help ourselves. Until we learn how to fight oppression systematically, all we can really do is to both sit idly by and say Hey!

Wake up! Look at what you're doing to yourself!

I'd like to say to the above comment(abey) that a hetrosexual person is JUST as likely to be ashamed of their Country or Heritage. you cannot steryotype all homosexuals saying that most of them are ashamed. In a sense i myself (being hetrosexual) am not as proud as i could be of Ethiopia's view on Women AND it's View on Homosexuals also it's lack of rights to civillians.
When all these issues are sorted out then I will be Very Very proud to be from Ethiopia.
But i agree with (Abey) in that we have to fight oppression systematically.
HERE'S TO A FAR PROUDER, MORE LIBERAL ETHIOPIA

Dear shaweet:

I was not stereotyping any group of people. As clearly stated in my first post the article was written by another gay individual that happens to be in agreement with the point I was attempting to make. My understanding was that he was writing to a group of Gay Ethiopians in Diaspora to accept who they are (Gay Ethiopian not just Gay) and fight discrimination with in the system. My question after reading the article was why are these people excluding themselves from things that are important to them? Why are they asking equality in Ethiopia after renouncing their ethnic identity?

You have also stated that “ am not as proud as i could be of Ethiopia's view on Women AND it's View on Homosexuals also it's lack of rights to civillians. When all these issues are sorted out then I will be Very Very proud to be from Ethiopia.” My sister, the government of Ethiopia and the people are two different things. We humans do not choose our race, ethnicity and heritage. We are born into it and do not divorce from it based on conditions. Are you saying all Germans should not be proud of their background because Hitler allegedly killed 6 million Jews? Show me a nation that has never treated women, racial minorities, people with disabilities, sexual minorities discriminatorily and I will agree with your argument.

Gay people rightly make a lot of noise about the rights they deserve. But if, because of their own actions, they do not contribute to the human rights movement in Ethiopia and show straight Ethiopians that they are not particularly different from them when it comes to human rights, then it's a little harder to condemn them for not treating them equal - especially when they taken an active role in ensuring they never really will.

If we do not contribute now you will be spending more time defending yourself than living in equality with Ethiopians brothers and sisters.

This is great.

I was born in Addis abeba and knew i liked men since i can remember. Being gay is a very natural thing. There are millions of gay people in Ethiopia and they are having a great time as we tackle this subject here. Some are out and some are cheating on their wives or husbands. I hate to break it to you all idiots who believe that gayness is a western thing. Believe me, you have an uncle, or an aunt, or a cousin, or a brother or a sister or a father or a mother who has had sex with the same sex. Whether they chose to be open about it is another story. Don't forget that much of what you do in bed (straight or gay) is not a much discussed topic.

This thread has turned out to be very revealing. This is all good. All input leads us to better uderstanding and can bring us to better common ground.
Ive seen for the first time alot of discussion hinting at one HUGE part of the puzzle that we have long overlooked.
Lets back up for a second and actually DEFINE homosexual.
Our endless compulsion to classify is a very basic need of ours as humans. its the way our minds process iformation- in degrees, usually between two polar opposites. This always leads people to believe one of two things (nature vs nurture)
1. homosexuality is natural
(maybe genetically proned to homosexuality)
2. Homosexuality is a choice
(a choice independent of instinct and/or
a product of his environment)

So on the left is what everyone will quickly label the "liberals" citing that homosexuality is genetic. Speaking as a professional psychologist i can say there is substantial evidence in support of this theory. It does seem that in the SDN (sexually dimorphic nucleus) there has been proven in several circumstances that the core of the brain that controls sexual nature including maternal/paternal instincts, sexual stimulation, etc. do show remarkable differences in homosexuals compared to heterosexuals. For example, a homosexual males nucleus develops to almost a 40% smaller size in most homosexual males resembling that more of a female nucleus. The opposite is true of the lesbian brain. The nucleus resembles that of a mans. For this reason i must submit that there is definite reason to believe that this could be the cause of many homosexual behaviour patterns.

Now, on the right is the so-called conservatives who say that people choose to be homosexual. Again, i have to submit that in my experience as a psychologist there seems to be evidence to support this theory. For example, patient Jane Doe was a victim of a violent sexual crime. After this violation she no longer felt safe with men. Jane Doe begins homosexual relationship to find partnership without the feeling of threat. This too happens.

I think we some times fail to realize it doesnt have to be one or the other. Sometimes, alot of times, its both or neither. Its my professional opinion it is both.

There are those who really do have an addiction to sex and mind no preference natural or not.

There are entire societies of people in most all civilizations around the world that have been born with both sexual assignments, called hermaphrodites. Many hermaphrodites have there sexual assigment corrected surgically with their results choosen by the parents of whether to make their child a boy or a girl. Many of these have to be reversed at later age because the child later disagrees assignment choice and usually suffers much mental trauma being raised as the percieved "wrong" sex. And if they dont? Do they live as and are labeled as a homosexual?

So where does that leave us? I think it leaves alot of different scenarios being lumped into one agenda. It seems to me its going to be very difficult to judge a group of such diversity under one of criticism. One thing has to be recognized.

Gay rights activists do have a point. noone should be discriminated against because of genetics. in this it is no different than discriminating against someone of a different skin color or because of an unusual physical developments. Without passing judgement, you can also accept that there is in some ways a similiarity between inherent homosexuality and people with genetic pathologies with one major difference AND AN IMPORTANT ONE - a homosexuality may only be classified as a pathology if it is causing problems within the self. in other words at the hands of society and self doubt, the pressures may lead a person to a clinical pathological state. otherwise, homosexuality is not by psychological definition an impadence or is not considered a threat.

I cant help but recognize one arguement that needs closer consideration ...right to marriage (with exception of church involvement) should not be denied to someone because of their genetic makeup.
in the united states this law has been constantly under criticism for good reason.
THIS SAME law used to ban marriage between a black person and white person as well. it has been changed a few times over time to prevent discrimination due to other factors based on gentic makeup i.e. race.
i think theres a very strong case for anyone opposing this marriage ban in a united states court.

the legal implications are ones that need definite attention.

just food for thought. glad to see people are sharing.

Im not saying this in a vengeful manner.

But just something i want the heterosexuals
slamming homosexuality on here-

1. what if someone asked you to change your orientation?
could you be attracted to the same sex by choice?
i dont think so. i think this is true of most people. they are naturally attracted to one or another- im not a big subscriber to the bisexual bit- neither can a great number of
homosexuals for the same reason. its not natural for them. they would feel as strange as you to be with the sex not attractive to them. it would feel just as bizarre for them to be with a person of the opposite sex as it would for you to be with someone of the same sex. imagine that. and to alot of them your attraction to the opposite sex seems equally bizarre.

2. what if someone told you to never have sex again.
could you never have sex again?
its easy for a heterosexual to say homosexuals must refrain from all sexual activity because its not self subjective. its always easy to tell someone what to do but never as easy to do it.

a day in the shoes of the other person.

by the way- im gay and i NEVER ONCE chose to be gay. i have ALWAYS been attracted to men and NEVER have i found women at all appealing. and there are many like me. i know for a fact god created me this way... i have 40 years of first hand experience.

HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT AN IMPORT- heres a history lesson-

Homosexuality in Prehistoric Africa-

Our knowledge of homosexuality in prehistoric African cultures is limited by the late-Middle Age European views of Africans, of homosexuality, and of course, the European reason for being in sub-Saharan Africa in the first place - the slave trade. Among the earliest references to it are some of the records of the Inquisition in Brazil. From the Denunciations of Bahia, (1591-1593)
comes this thoroughly racist reference to it:

"Francisco Manicongo, a cobbler's apprentice known among the slaves as a sodomite for 'performing the duties of a female' and for 'refusing to wear the men's clothes which the master gave him.' Francisco's accuser added that in Angola and the Congo in which he had wandered much and of which he had much experience, it is customary among the pagan negros to wear a loincloth with the ends in front which leaves an opening in the rear... this custom being adopted by the sodomitic negros who serve as passive women in the abominable sin. These passives are called jimbandaa in the language of Angola and the Congo, which means passive sodomite. The accuser claimed to have seen Francisco Manicongo "wearing a loincloth such as passive sodomites wear in his land of the Congo and immediately rebuked him." (quoted by J. Treveisan, Perverts in Paradise, London, 1986. Elipses are his.)

We can see from such references, that homosexuality was present in Africa from at least the earliest of European contact, and without much doubt, from long before. It wasn't just central Africa, either. While European proprieties made such graphic description of African homosexualities uncommon in their descriptions of Africa, there are enough references to it to know that it was indeed present, and even used as a justification for considering African cultures primitive enough to justify slavery.

Among the last African cultures to be subjugated by Europeans, the Hausa peoples of northern Nigeria and the surrounding countries offer interesting examples of homosexuality among Islmaicized peoples of Africa. Conquered by the British only in 1904, they were studied extensively by British ethnographers within a decade and a half of the arrival of the British - having experienced very limited contact with Europeans in the meantime. These ethnographers included sexual practices, including homosexuality, in their survey. Thus, they give us a unique glimpse into a nearly pristine African Islamic culture.

The Hausa people have terms in their language that are used to describe homosexuals. Two terms are common, 'yan dauda, which is usually translated as "homosexual" or "transvestite" and 'dan dauda, which translates as a homosexual "wife." The 'yan dauda in Hausaland engange in stereotypical professions, much as marginalized gay men in the west often do. In Hausaland, they are often engaged in the sex trade - both as male prostitutes and as 'procurers' for female prostitutes. In the latter role, they do not behave as 'pimps' do in the west, maintaining 'stables' of female prostitutes under their subjugation, but rather simply as go-betweens, arranging, for a fee, liasons for men seeking the commercial charms of female prostitutes. In this role, they often engage as male prostitutes themselves when the opportunity arises.

Among other African tribes, homosexual behavior among premarriage adolescents is common and is not even considered to be sex, since it does not involve procreative potential. In Camaroon, for example, homosexual acts as late as age 17 are considered innocent, not being "true" sexual relations. Such youth consider themselves virgins at marriage, even though they may have considerable homosexual experience in both roles. There are many stories among the Pangwe of Camaroon of men who hate women and prefer the company of men even when offered a large brideprice, of men who court other men, etc. That these behaviors existed within this tribe prior to European contact is evidenced by the richness and number of these stories.

In Zimbabwe, a nation racked by recent homophobic pogroms instituted by its viciously homophobic dictator, Robert Mugabe, there has historically been little known about homosexual behavior among peoples present prior to European contact. Some ethnographers have dishonestly attempted to show that homosexual behavior is a recent innovation encouraged by Europeans to serve their capital interests, in housing large numbers of male Africans together in barracks to serve as labor in the mines.

The reality is that homosexuality existed in Zimbabwe long prior to European contact, just like it did anywhere else in Africa. We know this because the San people had the indiscretion to record their group anal sexual intercourse on rock paintings that date back thousands of years.

The Bantu-speaking peoples of the plateau country were more circumspect, but have admitted to ethnographers that homosexual contact did occur, and was expected of pre-marriage adolescent males.

Court documents from the colonial era from Zimbabwe and South Africa (1920 and 1917 respectively) indicate that among both the Mazoe and Ndebele peoples of Zimbabwe and South Africa respectively, a fine of one beast was levied against persons attempting to engage in sodomy by traditional rulers in pre-colonial times from both tribes. This fine equates to a misdemeanor - evidence that it was not heavily frowned upon, nor particularly uncommon.

Colonial court records also show that prosecution for male homosexuality at the onset of colonial rule amounted to 1.5 percent of criminal cases in Zimbabwe, eventually declining to near zero, while prosecutions for heterosexual crimes, such as indecent assault, rape, etc., rose from almost nothing to significant portions of the criminal dockets. It must be noted that because the 1.5 percent represented unwilling participants in the criminal process, the actual extent of homosexual behavior was certainly much greater, since only those caught in flagrante delicto, those prosecuted with amicus, or those accused by jilted lovers or others with an axe to grind, represent the criminal numbers we see in the records. The actual numbers were certainly much higher. In more than 90 percent of cases, the defendant was an African male accused of assualting another African male or boy. Cases involving Europeans were much more rare.

The notion that this is "a white-man's disease of recent origin" is made laughable by an even cursory examination of the criminal records of colonial Zimbabwe and South Africa. A close qualitative analysis of the early colonial trial transcripts shows that there was often shared property resulting from long-standing cohabitation by the defendant and his accusor. That the courts had to sort out the property details shows that these men had often considered themselves in a de facto marriage prior to their dispute.

Contrary to Mugabe's and other Afrocentrists' assertions, analysis of the colonial court cases shows that the rate of prosecution for homosexual behaviors was highest among the more indigenous peoples (Shona, 17% and Ndebele, 16%), and least among the "industrialized migrants" from elsewhere (about 3% each for Xhosa, Basotho and Zulu). Presumably the latter had simply learned better how to avoid the white man's justice.

Homosexuality Among Native Americans
When English and French-Canadian fur trappers first grew acquainted with the cultures of the Native Americans among whom they found themselves, they were surprised to find that there were significant numbers of men dressed as women among the tribes of the region. What intrigued them the most, however, was the esteem with which these men were held by their fellow tribesmen. These men were considered to be spiritually gifted, a special gift to the tribe by God, men with a particular insight into spiritual matters. As they were encountered in most tribes, the trappers chose a French word to describe them all: "berdache."
Personally, as a person of Native American descent, I thoroughly dislike that term, for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that it is ultimately perjorative in its roots. Native Americans find the term offensive as it comes ultimately from the Arabic where it means roughly, 'male prostitute,' a thoroughly unacceptable term to be used for their highly respected spiritual advisors and elders.

The term "Two-Spirit" has been proposed as a replacement, but I find that it too is lacking, in that there is no universal agreement on its meanings, some of which are also perjorative. Yet what it does convey is a sense that these people have a special gift - being in two worlds at once, the normal material world, but also an sensitivity to a special gift of the spirit that only people like themselves can experience.

Other terms also fail to convey the breadth of the phenomenon and the esteem in which these men were held. While men living as men with other men were a phenomenon that varied widely among tribes, the phenomenon of the man dressed as a woman who engaged in the pursuit of spiritual matters was almost universal among North American tribes. The term, "Two-Spirit" is a term I will use, then, to describe this phenomenon in this section of this essay, in spite of its shortcomings.

There were exceptions, of course, to the celebration of Two-Spirits, such as the Pimas of Arizona, but in most cases, Native American tribes, particularly the tribes of the Great Plains and the Southwest, were greatly admiring of their Two-Spirits. Among the Hopi and the Zuni of Arizona and New Mexico, these Two-Spirits held a special status. They were keepers of the ancient traditional stories of creation, healing and growth. But more than that, they were the keepers of the spiritual traditions, recognized for their special gift of being "between genders."

Indeed, some tribes considered their Two-Spirits as being in the middle of a continuum of gender, not an abberation between two opposite genders as the western European model would have it. In this way, they were prescient of the view of many modern psychologists, who themselves are uncomfortable with the black/white, either/or gender identification of the European model.

By rejecting the dichotomous approach of the Europeans, the Native Americans who celebrated this diversity among themselves largely avoided the stigmatization of the members of their tribes that results when someone does not neatly fit within a dichotomous framework, but becomes seen as a "deviant" instead.

The veneration of the Two-Spirits was in no small part because of the realization that these people not only were different, but both the tribes and the Two-Spirits themselves understood their difference in spiritual terms - they were seen as prophets, men with mystical powers and the gift to see into two realms of the spirit at the same time - the realm of both men and women.

The veneration of the Two-Spirits began its decline with the arrival of the Spanish with their Inquisition. Of course, Native Americans who ran afoul of the Spanish Inquisition often found themselves being tortured or enslaved, and so they had an incentive to hide their Two-Spirit traditions. Matters weren't much better for the Native Americans who found themselves in lands captured by the English or French, either. In both cases, Two-Spirits and the Two-Spirit tradition was actively persecuted and suppressed as being deviant. Under the government of the United States, such activities were profoundly and ruthlessly punished.

The result has been that many Native Americans fail to appreciate that their Two-Spirit tradition is based on homosexuality and that the word "gay" has a meaning that is associated with homosexual acts, rather than the spiritual traditions of the Two-Spirits who themselves were gay. When tribal elders are asked if there were any gays among them in pre-European times, they will inevitably answer with a resounding, "NO!" Yet when asked about the nadle or the winkte or some other native language term, the answer would be a fond, nostalgic "Yes!" even though the terms are really much the same. It is clear that homophobia is a cultural value that has been well absorbed from the white man.

Homosexuality in Ancient Greece and Rome
A myth commonly held in conservative Christian religious groups is that Greece and Rome fell when their acceptance of homosexuality arose, and that the resulting "immorality" was a primary cause of their fall.
The reality is quite different. Neither Greek nor Roman cultures began their decline with an increased tolerance of homosexuality; rather it was quite the opposite.

Homosexuality among the Greeks has been the subject of a great deal of scholarly study over the years, with the result that it is widely accepted among the American public that it was common. What is not as widely known, however, is that it was as common among the Roman population, and took much the same form.

Much has been written of pederastry among the Greeks, but the reality is that while common among the military occupations, the familiar forms that homosexuality takes among Americans was the rule among the Greeks and Romans as well.

The fact is that the concept of gender was very, very different among the Greeks and Romans. The notion that a person was "male" or "female" in gender as well as sex is one that had not currency among these ancients. They recongnized, as we often do not, that a person may well not see themselves as "macho" or "feminine," but rather a combination of the traits.

As a result, it did not seem at all unusual among the ancients for two men or two women to get together and form a family unit. Marriage between members of the same sex was common, accepted, and not considered different or unusual at all, because gender was not identified strictly with sex as it is among modern Europeans and Americans.

Therefore, the idea of seeing two men hugging, kissing and showing great affection, even passion for each other in public is a notion that would not have stirred any more interest among the ancients that such behavior between members of the opposite sex would for us.

It is not surprising, then, that the ancient Greeks and Romans have left us a rich heritage of literature celebrating such relationships. Stories are legion of the deep passion and love such couples had for each other.

While some authors have attempted to show that homosexuality was prosecuted in ancient Rome, the fact is that no account of prosecution for a homosexual relationship, prior to the Christian era, survives. Those examples that purport to show such prosecutions, on close examination show that the victim was a minor - and the prosecution is for pedophilia, not for homosexuality. Indeed, there are plenty of examples of prosecution for adultery, and many for pedophilia, but not a single case for homosexuality.

Cicero, one of the greatest of Roman jurists, speaks endlessly of Roman law, including in detail those statutes dealing with sexual relations, but nowhere does he mention homosexuality. Cicero ridicules many prominent citizens for having been male prostitutes during their youth, but nowhere does he indicate that it was illegal. In fact, in one case, in defending one Cnaeus Plancius from the charge that he had taken a male lover into the country to have sex with him, he states categorically that "this is not a crime."

In Augustinian Rome, not only was male prostitution allowed, it was even taxed. A Roman historian of the era, Martial, not only mentions many prominent citizens and their male lovers by name, but admits to having engaged in such activities himself, and comments on it without the least evidence of shame.

While the general theory is that tolerance of homosexuality increased as Rome began its decline, the fact is that the opposite is true. During the period of the Roman republic, when Rome was genuinely governed by the Senate, there was far greater tolerance of homosexuality, with the result that it was generally ignored in official documents. Because persecution began under the empire, more and more official references to it began to appear in legal documents, hence the belief by some historians, that it became more common. When one examines civil, secular documents, however, one sees that the opposite trend is the case.

The reality is that there is no evidence whatever during the republican era, up through the beginning of the empire, of any recognition in Roman law for any difference between homosexual or heterosexual sex, or for that matter, even marriage.

That all began to change, however, with the "conversion" of the Emperor Constantine to Christianity.

The Surprising Origins of Homophobia In Western and, Ultimately, In World Culture
The early church fathers, particularly those who founded the monastic orders, often looked to "nature" for examples of morality and immorality. This rather risky business was fraught with difficulties, not the least of which was the fact that nature itself was very poorly understood during this period of history. Nature was considered inherently beautiful and moral, even though almost any activity of man considered to be immoral can be shown to be engaged in by animals. This inconvenient fact was simply ignored by the ancients, or they were not aware of it. The exceptions were animals that the ancients considered to be revolting or disgusting for whatever reason, or were believed to engage in bizarre behaviors.
For example, it was believed during this time that hyenas were fond of digging up graves and eating the corpses. It was also believed that hares grew a new anal opening every year, and that weasels mated through the mouth and bore their young through the ear.

Because hyenas were considered to be rather disgusting animals, and because they were believed to engage in homosexual sex predominantly, homosexuality itself began to be considered to be disgusting by them through their association with the animals the ancients considered disgusting.

These unfounded stereotypes were perpetuated in books called "Bestiaries" that purported to describe the natural history of the animals that were familiar to the ancients. Two of the most famous of these were the "Bestiary of Barnabus" and the "Historia Animalium." Both perpetuated many stereotypes about animals, including those listed above.

Because homosexuality became associated with hyenas, an animal believed to rob graves and eat the corpses, it's not surprising that early church fathers and monastics held homosexuality itself to be repugnant since it was associated with such repugnant animals.

Thus began a campaign against homosexuality by certain church fathers, among them Augustine (a rather nasty piece of work himself, the first known zealous advocate of forced conversions), and Clement, a man who mistakenly associated homosexuality with a form of child slavery in which male children were often sold into slavery as prostitutes. These two men and others like them began to associate homosexuality not just with unsavory animal practices, but with other practices they didn't happen to like, such as paganism, or pederastry, etc.

The man who took this ball and ran with it was "Saint" John Chrysostom, who was the first church father who can clearly be shown to object to homosexuality based on the gender of its participants, not based just on procreative intent, or based on the ages of those involved, or whether the participants were pagans. Yet his theology was so thoroughly inconsistent that he did not have much direct influence on subsequent theology.

While the theology of homosexuality of these men was insistent, it wasn't to become influential for a long time. The reason is simple - homosexuality was so common in this period, and practiced so openly, that the public at large regarded these doctrines as a bit extreme, just like the call to celibacy outside of strictly procreative sex as was advocated by many of these same church fathers.

Homosexuality in the European Middle Ages
Homosexuality continued to be practiced openly and without much restraint up through the 11th century. Throughout the middle ages, not only did the open practice of homosexuality continue, but it flourished in the monasteries of the time. Many of the priests and abbots not only left us literature celebrating their gay lovers, but some of the poetry they left us was baldy erotic. Consider this poem from Marbod, Bishop of Rennes (d. 1123 C.E.)

The Unyielding Youth
Horace composed an ode about a certain boy

Whose face was so lovely he could easily have been a girl,
Whose hair fell in waves against his ivory neck,
Whose forehead was white as snow and his eyes black as pitch,
Whose soft cheeks were full of delicious sweetness
When they bloomed in the brightness of a blush of beauty,
His nose was perfect, his lips flame red, lovely his teeth--
An exterior formed in measure to match his mind.

Of course, the good bishop was far from alone in his same-sex attractions. We have literally thousands of poems from this period, many of them from other monastics, who celebrated their love for their gay lovers.
Among these monastics were St. Aelred, St. Anselm, St. Bernard and many others. Among these, the literature left us by St. Aelred offers the clearest and most detailed literature celebrating gay love in this period.

That homosexual sex was condemned by Leviticus did not seem to matter to the clerics of this period. They considered the Levitical proscription to fall in the same category as the rest of the vast corpus of Levitical proscriptions: they were abolished, along with the requirement for animal sacrifice, by the atonement of Jesus.

As for Paul's references in Romans, it was felt that Paul had simply been a bit overboard in this regard the same as he was in telling women to not speak in church and in his proffering advice to not marry.

As in most times, most of the records we have of this period are from either the clerics, the most commonly literate or from the upper classes, for whom they labored. We therefore have a good picture of homosexuality from this period among the clerics and upper classes, but less so from the poor and working classes. We know, however, that it was as tolerated among them as among the upper classes, because of references like that of Hilderbert of Lavardin, who said of homosexuality, that "no walk of life escapes it."

With this level of acceptance and practice, how was it then that homosexuality became so reviled, so persecuted?

Waw, this is very interesting issues for me because it is unusual but important. Let me start my debate from about sexual orientation in Ethiopia. Homosexuality is existing in our main stream community still if we like it or not… but undiscussable or Taboo…

Apparently, Some of our brothers and Sisters are losing their lovable life because of this very bad social behavior (Homophobic) some are committed suicide, some are affected and infected by HIV and AIDS Because of un sufficient information from Health center or HOMOPHOBIC health Policy and Professionals and force migration to western country to find themselves.

I know some thing, we all are naturally different. our face, color, behavior, color choice, sex, even our sexual preferences as well. So we don’t need to force to be Uniform because we all are naturally different.

But the main thing this 2 day’s Ethiopian should respect all those social differences. If we need to create happy and creative community or Generation every Ethiopian should accept as Ethiopian living in a lot of POSIBILITIES. All those who live in that possibilities need respect and recognition.

Peace and love for Ethiopian.
An Ethiopian from Sydney

Waw, this is very interesting issues for me because it is unusual but important. Let me start my debate from about sexual orientation in Ethiopia. Homosexuality is existing in our main stream community still if we like it or not… but undiscussable or Taboo…

Apparently, Some of our brothers and Sisters are losing their lovable life because of this very bad social behavior (Homophobic) some are committed suicide, some are affected and infected by HIV and AIDS Because of un sufficient information from Health center or HOMOPHOBIC health Policy and Professionals and force migration to western country to find themselves.

I know some thing, we all are naturally different. our face, color, behavior, color choice, sex, even our sexual preferences as well. So we don’t need to force to be Uniform because we all are naturally different.

But the main thing this 2 day’s Ethiopian should respect all those social differences. If we need to create happy and creative community or Generation every Ethiopian should accept as Ethiopian living in a lot of POSIBILITIES. All those who live in that possibilities need respect and recognition.

Peace and love for Ethiopian.
An Ethiopian from Sydney

Dear all.

There is so much to say, I will mention just two things, first of al about the topic of Ethiopia versus the Western world, concerning the topic of homosexuality;

Please remember that homosexuality was a illegal and a taboo in the western world for almost all of it’s history. Homosexuality still is a taboo for some and a sin according to many, all over the world. In all the world, Ethiopia or Europe, people refuse to look up and see, because they do not what to be confronted with anything else they once decided is the reality. The only place where there is always a clear blue sky, is a dessert, a place where no one what’s to live...
And in the end, in the real world, gay people are being born everywhere, and struggle for what they feel is good.

This struggle has got a lot to do with the topic of already addressed below by many others; Christianity and homosexuality. This is what I got to add about this topic:
We all can feel and give love. That's, to my opinion, the biggest gift God gave humanity. How on earth can it be good to feel and give love for some, and be completely wrong for others? Others that feel exact the same, but not for people of the opposite gender.

How can love be wrong...
That God may give it to you, (all the love that you need)
Nova

Wow! What a wonderful introduction to Ethiopian attitudes toward homosexuality. Should it be reassuring to find that all these arguements - "pro" and "con", as if you can be "pro" or "con" regarding whether the world is round - are the same that I have heard all of my life within the United States.

Hey everyone
Just want to say that it's great to be able to have a mature debate about such things with fellow Ethiopians.This way we get to experiance the points of views of others. I always say never jump to conclusions as opinions are always forming and changing throughout life!
So stay open minded, and love thy neighbour! (regardless of sexual orientation!!)

Why are people so obssesed with homosexuality being a sin. Yeah it is a sin but I also believe that some of the daily activities of us (I am a 110% heterosexual)is also a sin ( according to my Orthodox religion). Having sex before marriage, lying, cheating, gossiping, hating, etc... are all sins. And I also believe that all sins are made equal. So in that sense everyone needs to repent not just gays. I am tiered of all these self righeous people out there so quick to judje other people!

I think that people should be free to be who they are. As someone said, it is not a choice but if it was I would still choose to be gay because that is what I was meant to be.

I am not a Christian or a Muslim and I am constantly surprised by the rubbish some people come out with and then use their religion to justify hatred, discrimination and violence. I’d love someone to explain to me how those things fit in to Christianity or Islam.

I am proud to be gay and I am proud to come from a country which for the most part lives in the real world and not in the dark ages. It is always easy to hate and vilify what you do not understand, it takes a divine person to accept others and treat them with respect.

The only sin people on this topic should be worried about is not loving their fellow man.

we are losing everything. we have lost a lot of our cltural values and this gay thing is a treat for our generation. I wish socialism is here to swep off them out the society

Andrew thank you for occasionally bringing up the issue of homosexuality in Ethiopia for discussion. I am a gay Ethiopian who was born and raised in Ethiopia. I was aware of my sexuality earily in my childhood. I now reside in America and have come to accept my sexuality. I am part of the Ethiopian diaspora, which means I have close relation to other Ethiopians in America. My Family and close friends know about my sexuality. For the most part they all have been supportive. It took a tremendous amount of soul searching to come out of the closet but I am delighted that I finally told the truth. Interestingly the past five years we have witnessed a flourishing of a gay Ethiopian community in America. I live in a large west coast city and there are at least 50 gay Ethiopians. Most other big American cities have similar numbers of gay Ethiopians. Creating a community has been pivotal in breaking the wall of silence around homosexuality in Ethiopia. We often gather weekly to support each other. To have other Gay Ethiopians in a community is relief to most of us who had believed that we were alone in our sexuality. It has also been interesting to notice a number of gay Ethiopians who had lived lives totally separate from other Ethiopians come back to the familiar setting of a gay Ethiopian community, the first Ethiopian gay bar has been open for business in Washington DC for over a year now and it is doing brisk business. There are also plans for a large event for gay Ethiopians at the annual Ethiopian sports festival in Los Angeles.

The situation in Ethiopia is considerably more difficult. Addis has an ever-growing gay population. However gays face daily abuse from an extremely hostile society. Despite the abuse people have learned to create community. Ethiopians have to face the fact that gay people are amongst you.

Ok let me pose a question about this concept of gay-lesbian feeling to be natural or being born with. Just from scientfic perspective only. Can some body explain to me how the sexual intimacy fits into place interms of anatomy (sexual intercourse)? No reproductibe biology, be it in human beings nor in any other species proves that a male could sexually fit anatomically with another male and likewise with female couples too. That should be the litmus not the feeling. Because we feel it, doesn't mean that it is natural. Just it doesn't fit! Oral and anal sex are not natural either because NO anatomical fit. This brings us to the conclusion that it is VERY unnatural but a choice. what would have happened to mankind if the world would have been filled with gays and lesbians? simply we will be extinct from the surface of the earth. Naturally every living thing reproduces itself through a cascade of natural processes. therefore, they shouldn't preach us about being natural or born with nonsense. However I respect their choice. Last, I have never witnessned any thing like this in the other anmial kingdom which should be very rampant if it is natural; as they are driven by their instincts.
Thanks

Oh dear, he just doesn't get it does he. Perhaps I should explain it again. IT IS NATURAL AND IT’S NOT A CHOICE!!!!

And even if it was a choice I would still choose to be gay, because I am proud of it and as much as people don't like it, gays are here to stay and we WILL have our rights eventually and people will just have to put up with it.

Homosexuality has been around for thousands of years and will be around for much longer. It was celebrated in ancient Egypt and in Greece. Even Alexander the Great had homosexual tendencies and he was twice the man any of us can ever hope to be.

And believe me, during intercourse it all 'fits' perfectly.

Until man can learn to be blind to people's differences and treat everyone with equal respect, the world will never be able to claim that it is civilized; it will only ever be full of children bullying each other on a giant playground.

I hope that this time comes sooner rather than later and I applaud all the Ethiopian gays who fight each day for their basic right to exist.

Finally, I would like to tell you all where the word homophobia comes from. It is Greek, homo meaning the same and phobia meaning fear. Interesting isn't it.

Hi Dear,
I think you have deliberately evaded the core of my question. It is true that gays and lesbians have lived in our earth since antiquity. It has even been mentioned in the holy bible many times. That is not a question that I am asking, rather the point of being natural or nurtured. It is that simple. I truly respect being gay or lesbian. I have absolutely no problem with that. But I believe that it is a choice and convince me that it is natural! Alexander the great can be a gay of his own choice. That doesn't bring it closer to be natural. Many scientists have also tried to give it scientific explanation but miserably failed. They have gone to the level of brain imaging and molecular level but none of your claims are substantiated yet. So if you have any thing to tell me you are most welcome otherwise remain with your own choice and stop preaching us your nonsense.
Thanks

To abie –

Science has not answered many of life’s intriguing questions. Science can’t answer why you exist or why you were born on a certain day or why you were born in Ethiopia? Please scientifically prove to me why you were born to Ethiopian parents and I will accept that you are an Ethiopian. What sort of deduction is that? No one has to prove anything to anyone to affirm their existence. Science can’t measure love, thoughts or anything intangible and just because feelings, emotions or thoughts are not measurable or quantifiable, it doesn’t mean they seize to exist either.

But we all experience thoughts and feelings therefore we agree on their existence. And as for us gays, millions of us from all over the planet experience the same feelings. We didn’t choose to be gay, we are born gay. When you can prove to me when you chose to be straight and prove to me how you are straight, then we can have can have an intelligent discussion. Until then, stay out it and stop your half-assed “I respect gays” crap.

Also, gays have existed in traditional Ethiopia for hundreds of years in some societies. I suggest you do some reading before you come to conclusions solely based on your observations.

Hello Zenezena
Actually I agree with you that science is way behind explaining the intrigues of nature. That is why we go to spiritual books to fill in the gaps. It is not that I believe everything in science, but I assumed that arguing based on scientific evidences would be the best bet for you guys. Otherwise you would perfectly understand what holy books in all religions say about gays and lesbians. If things are left for the act of nature, then they would perpetuate and leave their own legacy, they do not extriminate them selves. So if we assume the world be filled with gays and lesbians then it only takes a generation to be decimated from the surface of the earth. So your argument doesn't hold water and try another one.
Thanks

I really love this day and age that we live in. We are able to speak our mind – with out fear of being stoned. We are writing our minds – with out fear of persecution.

Recently a magazine that is published in Ethiopia (?) called ‘myfashione’ landed on my hand, a great move. Interesting collection of ideas and thoughts that pertain to Ethiopia and Ethiopians lives. It also touched the issue of gay and lesbians.

First of all, I’m NOT homosexual, but I’m not homophobic. As the same way that I’m not a thief, but I’m not a ‘thiefophobic’ ( if there is such a word - I don’t hate the thieves). If so I would have hated over half the Ethiopian population who reside in Ethiopia/ America/else where and good at stealing every day. ( bet yekuterew).

And some might say, well we do that for survival but the gay issue is….blah blah blah….Hold your thoughts, yes indeed we lie to come to America or elsewhere, we MARRY our own siblings by fake ( for that matter anyone ) just to leave the Ethiopia. We openly defile the very marriage concept that God has designed for our sanity and use the same ‘God’ to judge the gays….?????

That is what the critic wegesha @ “yekolotemari.blog.com/809244/” calls it DOUBLE STANDARD. We are masters of Double Standard. We can bent and break and twist the very principles of life ( it doesn’t matter if it is God’s law … etc) – to accommodate our selfish, greedy way.
But, if some one else’s behavior ‘looks, smells, acts’ different we throw our spear…. And we bring some blab about ‘the sacred land, the holy land, the very Christian land….. blah blah blah blah…. ‘Tiresome void and cheap words….

We are hypocrites at heart, also check out the new blog (ethiomind.blogspot.com) In my opinion the only way out is: first admit our stance in general ( be honest to our selves) we are not the ‘perfect’ special ‘race’ there is in the world. Yes we are different, but with out the others we won’t exist ( I don’t have to explain that – especially if you live abroad)…. second we will learn accepting, forgiving be forgiving, accepting and embracing by being open to listen and see.

But if you claim to burn the gays and kill them and destroy them, and declare that they will go to hell, they will bring the same spear back to you and say you liar – who got himself a fake marriage, who lied about his/her identity, who lives in a fake name… you thief , who have stolen sooo much from the poor land Ethiopia - whom you claim to love( but you steal her in the name of ‘it is the government money’)–, a thief who steals from parking lot and from every company, and thinks it is such a glory… you pervert who is sleeping around and laying around as if it is allowed to you… you hypocrite just pick up a mirror and judge yourself first……that is most likely what they will say…….And I can understand where they come from.

At last what I say is, having a double standard – we are not going to have any impact not even in our own family. We all live in the gray area…….

I read this bumper sticker the other day, “it would be great if closed mind comes with closed mouth!” … if you ain’t honest and open minded… you might as well.. close your mouth

Then, do I think gay/homosexuality is the right thing and normal thing? I say NO it is NOT… more explanation to come…..

Hey, I am not surprised by the visitor's comment regarding hand holding in Ethiopia and confuse it with gayness. It is the same anachronistic reading back into cultures that is part of communication accrss culture and time--the same way many westerners now want to read Abraham Lincoln's letters and habits as homosexual not realizing that that was simply how buddyness is expressed before people got the fear of being labelled 'gay' when they have no inkling of such behavior!

As an Ethiopian evanglical--with multiple degrees both in Science and humanities--I am thinking deeply. Here are some of the things I am thinking out loud and join me--
- we do well as we most Africans do [to the surprise of many if you really talk to most westerners especially Americans] their scientism (which is a smoke screen that many use not to face the spiritual quest as opposed to Science which is common to those who pursue knowledge in Scientific terms in its proper domain)is simply another form of poor religion and not an alternative to religion. They have to debase religion for convinience and the advancement of their secular agendas.
-While it is proven fact that homonsexuality is NOT genetically determined (as is the case between identical twins who are genetically identical while sexually different), I think the majority of gays do not want to be gays. Some say it is caused by a hormone a child is exposed to in his mother's womb (testostrone).
- As a christian I am to love, respect and seek the best of all of us sinners! The liar, the thief, the law breaker, the homosexual, the child predator.
-however, that does not entail as many in the west think condoning the action. There are many behaviors caused that we donot actively pursue to become like Obyss, child predator etc.. we are still accountable and change .... (to be continued)

Indeed what an interesting discussion on the subject of homosexuality. Discussion is a better approach than repression. Many of us have been repressed in the name of religion and social values. I find it educating to learn about the different opinions of Ethiopians on homosexuality.

We homosexuals have a multi-faceted life and as some people pointed out it is not only about sex. Some of us live a full life including a religious life. I for one am tired of a uni-faceted answer from the religious types. We are social beings, we are political beings, we are artistic beings etc etc. Except God there is no one person who can provide an authoritative answer, although we may attempt to. We are not God so let us not try to be judgemental.

Wether we like it or not times change, attitudes change and people change. We needed to be distanced from our homeland and religion to see ourselves and be critical about our values. That is why we are even discussing the issue and not just shoving it under the carpet as a ferenji problem. Again as someone pointed out there are homosexuals who live in Ethiopia. Be it in the religious order, in remote monasteries, or in the heart of cosmopolitan Addis Abeba. This does not only happen in Eth. but, first hand account also confirm that, homosexuality is practiced in other parts of Africa in some Sudanesse communities, in Egypt, Morocco, in the east and west, north and south, in biblical times, and in antiquity as well as in modern times, in secular world as well as religious ones. So why not in extraordinary Ethiopia?

How i pity you white washed Ethopians. So quick to buy into the devilish lies the Europeans have been force feeding you!

Look folks, you are either a Christian or you are not. In other words, you are either a Christian or a homosexual. It just doesn't go together. If you choose to be gay or lesbian, you are denying Christianity because Christianity is black and white. Things are either acceptable or they are not, when it comes to homosexuality, it is not acceptable, period. Don't argue saying God loves everybody. God loves sinners too, but that doesn't change the fact that they are sinners.

There may be gays in Ethiopia, Possibley, I don't know. I am an Ethiopian and I have never seen one nor have I heard of any one who is. But there are some does not mean they should have rights. What is not in the culture and in the Ethiopian church should be avoided. Leave Ethiopia if you are gay. It is unEthiopian.

Whether it is natual or not is not the point, Christianity opposes it. Therefore, God doesn't like it. If you say I am a homophobic, I will say that you are a Christophobic. Case closed.

The watchman of the gates of the people of God.

Just to respond to The Watcher's Watcher !
You said, I couldn't be a Christian if I "choose to be gay"..... but I am a Christian, Gay, and Ethiopian ! And there is not one damn thing you can do or say to change that ! It kills the sanctimonious Ethiopians such as yourself to see a proud GAY ETHIOPIAN living a great life ! Well, get used to it, we're here, and we're not going anywhere..... Oh and one more thing, just because you haven't "met any gay Ethiopians" doesn't mean, they don't exist... perhaps in your own household.... perhaps.....
melkam ken.
Efrem.

I found this through a link from another site. Very interesting topic. I am Ethiopian, and it took me a few years to understand that people do not chose to be gay. Nature along with nurture play a great role. while i was in ethiopia, without exaduration i didn't know anyone who is or might be gay. may be i wouldn't know even I saw one, or they are so much hidden they might be behind the closet. who can blame them when the law said their sexuality is punishable by imprisonment. my attitude about this issue is:

For those who quote the bible>> what about the rest of the topic that has been mentioned as 'abomination.'

If what someone does do not hurt anyone, what anyone does or we imagine they do shouldn't concern us.

Oh, please, listen! i don't think anyone wants to be ostracized, discriminated against, in most countries jailed, and in some instances slain. Don't you think so?

All of that talks about it being a sin, let's not judge others because that is NOT our job. what would Jesus do? It is like when He asked the men to throw the first stone. if we really think about it, I believe hypocricy is enjoying the attention from all the hateful words we are using about something we know nothing about.

Greetings,

I was baptized by the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo
Church. I am a believer in the Word of God and a Defender of the Orthodox Tewahedo Faith.

Mimi asked, "What would Jesus do?" in regards to the judgment of homosexuality. My response comes
directly from the Word of God:

"Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward
another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.

Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

(Romans 1:24-27,32)

Does this answer your question?

I guess we will soon be having discussions on the pros of incest, pedophilia and beastiality next!

Some fathers see nothing wrong with having sex with their daughters. Some uncles see nothing wrong with having sex with their nieces or nephews. Some men and women see nothing wrong with having sex with children under the age of 16. Some men and women see nothing wrong with having sex with their family pets!

Give me a damned break. The line has to be drawn somewhere and God makes it VERY clear what those boundaries are in EVERY form of Holy Scriptures that still exist today... for a REASON!

Whether Ethiopian Orthodox, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist or other... HOMOSEXUALITY has NOT been tolerated. That is not to say that it never existed but it was not embraced as an alternative
lifestyle the way it has been today, except in Greece and Rome.

Here is a little history on the topic:

"In ancient Greece, male homosexuality was elevated almost to the status of an institution.
A kind of military pederasty existed in Greece from ancient times, linked to warlike activities.

Homosexual freedom can be associated with the decline of Greece. From the first century onward, homosexuality flourished in Rome; male prostitution developed to an extraordinary extent
and another great empire fell.

The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is described in identical terms in the Bible and the Koran.

Aggressive male homosexuality has long been linked to the decline of civilizations. It is particularly common at times when a nation appears to be losing its spiritual direction.

An excessively homosexual society will quickly annihilate itself. No amount of theorizing can alter this fact, which has been demonstrated throughout history.

Surely it is time for homosexuals themselves to wake up to the reality of their situation and seek solutions to their problems, rather than campaigning for more acceptance of homosexuality."

("SEXUAL SECRETS - The Alchemy of Ecstasy" by Nik Douglas and Penny Slinger)

Mimi, my advice to you is NOT to allow yourself to be led astray as one of the "careless Ethiopians" that goes down with BABYLON. The devil/satan is VERY tricky and his method in these times is to make you think that what is wrong is right and what is right is wrong. He "renders evil for good and good for evil."

I have been researching world history for MANY years now and it is clear that history is repeating itself again and the time is drawing near for Divine Intervention to take place in order to cleanse the earth from all of these abominations, decadence and immorality.

Western European man's days are numbered, as well as all of their brainwashed followers in the form of corrupt country leaders and the masses of misinformed people worldwide.

ENKUTATASH is drawing near and the coming of the True New Milennium will arrive.

SEPTEMBER 11TH is NOT for the Amerikkkans!!! Once again, they have stolen something sacred and defiled it with their acts of violence and terror. The attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon was a professional hit by the United Snakes of Amerikkkan government as a ploy to instill fear in the American people and to invade/occupy ancient Babylon aka Iraq.

Wake up, Mimi!!!

I will pray for you and for us ALL...

Salaam,
Ms. Selassie

THE TRUTH MAY BE AN OFFENSE BUT IT IS NOT A SIN!

Wow, I must say Ms. Selassie had a lot to say about sinning! Thanks for the lesson from the Bible, but I'll pass Thank you very much......
~ The fact that you're comparing homosexuality to pedophilia is reprehensible and it shows your level of intelligence. (which minimal at best)
~ You went on about religion and your stance against homosexuality, well that's good for you. Keep reading your little book, and I'll keep living my life as a proud GAY ETHIOPIAN! And I'll be very happy knowing full well that there is absolutely NOTHING you or anyone else can do about it... :)
cheers.
Daniel.

hey to who are aganist gays,fuckup& goto hell!!!!!!! long live to ethiopian gays.we are people with different sexual orientation. jossey jossy from addis please gays e mail me atjossy.hotboy@gmail.com.

i have enough problems as is without someone condemning me to hell i do not understand why people have to judge is it cause it makes one feel better is that it there is no reason why i should wait till i die to burn in hell i have been in hell since i can remember our world is phobic not only to homosexuality but to everything that is different and believe one pays dearly for bieng different and the question whether one chooses to be gay and lead a miserable isolated painful existence is plain stupid imagine having to learn to walk talk appropriately as if you are a dummy imagine bieng constantly afraid of bieng caught while musing at a beautiful man imagine having to explain why you dont hang around with friends or dont watch football or love musicals i wish that all the people who find me an utter filth stand in my shoe just for a day i wonder would they abhor themselves or would they break down and cry i have been a victim of societies conventional wisdom that bieng gay is a sin and came from the west hell i have never been to the west i rarely go out of my own house do you know how many times i have tried to commit suicide do you know i first attempted it in first grade do you know that it takes a lot of strength for me just to wake up in the morning how many times have i prayed at night that it never dawns i literally cry myself to sleep every night and why cause i believed you bigots when you sais i was abominable but i know for sure that someone will pay for my misery you will pay for your careless words and indifference somehow someway mikuku2006@yahoo.com

i really think that the world would be a nicer place if everyone minded their own business and refrained from commenting on things they are ignorant on everyone loves to play god thou is a sinner this i believe is our most favourite line we just love looking down on people dont we who amongst us has not ever lusted after somebody elses ass who would dare say that he or she had never fantasized about somebody elses spouse who amongst us has not killed are we not paying taxes to a government that kills do we personally have to pull the trigger to be held accountable who amongst us has never wished ill to his fellow brother or sister who amongst us has not stolen or cheated how did we get to where we are have we not ever stepped over an unlucky bastard to get a promotion how about indifference who amongst us is a good samaritan dont we all just pass beggars and street children every freakin day on our way to our comfy offices dont we gossip on people i mean get realistic lets get real here we are all self centered ass holes so we are in no position to judge lets take a moment to see who we really are how is it ok for an elderly married man to flirt with an innocent teen who the hell stood or spoke against mr. ethiopian billionaire when he shamelessly used his money and power to manipulate vulnerable girls and probably even boys i ask you who amongst us spoke against adultry this is an issue we never talk about how about rape girls get raped by straight hetrosexual men every day and they are let free why is it not a sin dont we tell the the girl who got raped to keep silent for the sake of the honor of her family that is after all what is most important HONOR the truth of the matter is we dont care for sins or god's commandments what we care about is whether we get caught in the act cause if we do get caught then we will lose our most precious possession our HONOR i personally dont know of anyone who is honorable or who is worthy of my admiration we are bigots we are all pretentious biengs and i hope that one day we uncover out masks and come out as the filthy beings that we really are underneath to come to the question of whether homosexuality is a sin or not the answer would be I DONT GIVE A SHIT WHETHER IT IS that is who i am you can like it or not you can love me or leave me but i am never gonnna stop my only concern is for all the gay teens and kids suffering shame at the hands of stupid people if we brothers ( i'm talking about the fags ) come together form a sort of an outreach program for those very miserable teens who are feeling lost and totally desperate let us console them lets give them comfort lets make a change lets be activists like ghandi like jesus like martin luther king jr lets stand for something beside our promotion and dayly bread let us try to make it easier for the gay kids do you know the suicide rate for homosexuals i am sure it's pretty high i dont have the figures i feel that i should know dont you do you care i assure you if there is ever a place called heaven then THOU WHO HAS LENT A HAND TO HIS MISERABLE HOMO BROTHER WILL GAIN A SEAT TO THE RIGHT OF JESUS CHRIST IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN now this is not a direct quatation from the bible but it may very well be AND I SAY UNTO YOU THOU MISERABLE HOMO BROTHER CHILL RELAX LOCK YOUR DOOR PUT A RECORD ON AND DANCE IN YOU MOMMA'S GOWN PUT YOUR FREAKIN NAIL PAINT ON PUT YOUR LIPSTICK ON BROTHER AND SHAKE THAT ASS FOR ALL YOU KNOW EVEN GOD MIGHT BE CHEERING YOU KNOW mikuku2006@yahoo.com PS FEEL FREE TO EDIT THE PART ABOUT OUR GOVT OR THE BILLIONAIRE I WOULD FORGIVE YOU IF YOU DO BUT DONT YOU DARE EDIT ANYTHING ELSE FOR YOU'D FEEL MY WRATH GEE HOW FUN IT IS TO PLAY GOD CIAO

To all the ' Christians' condemning gay people. Open up that bible and re read that part about "do not judge, lest ye be judged" ... Why don't y’all just live your lives and be kind to everyone and leave the judging to the lord? Or are all you all filled up with your good deeds quota for this lifetime and think you should help God out? And again the bible says that we are all created in his image. He doesn't say 'Christian heterosexuals' are created in my image. He says all of us. So chill out. Christianity is love. Love everyone. Honor everyone. Let God sort out whatever he wants at the end. He is the only one that can know what is deep in our hearts anyway. And if he can forgive his killers I am pretty sure he will forgive those who don't follow this commands to the letter of the law...kind of like I hope we all are forgiven for judging, or backbiting, or lusting..etc. eh? melkam ken

I still don't understand why we judge homosexual, they are our family members, friends and colleagues, if we don't respect and treat them right, what kind of human are we?

We are not the HOMO land
We are the HOLY land

All Homos should be beaten severely at Meskel Adebabaye to make an example.

There are WAY too many comments for me to read them all, so please forgive me if I repeat what someone's already said.

What struck me the most amongst the comments I did read was the references to homosexuality and others sins as coming from other countries. Beloved brothers and sisters, PLEASE humble yourselves! God WILL humble the proud and exalt the humble! How can we think that a "foreign" sin like homosexuality will condemn us to 1,000 years of punishment from God when every year in Ethiopia thousands of Orthodox Christians marry outside the Church just so that they can divorce if they want to??? This is a SIN and it is NOT from abroad, it is an innovation that I have never seen amongst Orthodox so-called "believers" outside Ethiopia.

Maybe God condemns homosexuality, maybe He does not. There are certainly many gay and lesbian Ethiopians. But if we're going to talk about repentance, then we Christian Ethiopians must first look at the PLANKS in our own eyes! Once we've allowed God to purify us, then we can help our brothers and sisters with their sins, which are very much THEIR responsibility and fault, NOT America's or Europe's or any other foreign country's.

Discrimination and hatred sicken me. It's unbelievable that so-called Christians could want to MURDER gays and lesbians, their suffering fellow Ethiopians. Even in the United States the people know murder is wrong, and look at how low the USA has fallen! They know that despite all their problems! Repent of your stupidity, my beloved Ethiopia! Repent before we of your own will embrace another 1,000 years of isolation and blinding darkness...